September 25, 2023 49:15 E37

How Do You Grow Spiritually?

Spiritual Growth
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Luke Angle: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Uncut Podcast.

I'm Pastor

Luke,

and this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have uncut and honest conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Um, yeah. So we're sitting down on a beautiful Thursday afternoon, uh, or not afternoon, I guess it's still morning. We normally record. Well, I don't know

Cam Angle: We

Luke Angle: our recording

schedules.

Cam Angle: when we

Luke Angle: Yeah So, yeah, um Thanks for tuning in today. So this today we're gonna we were hitting potential topics around uh before we sat down and we settled on talking a little bit about like Spiritual growth.

[00:01:00] I

feel like it's like a topic that I don't know Everyone kind of wants to know how to grow spiritually or maybe has different ideas, but like there can be a lot of ambiguity around.

Cam Angle: Mm hmm. classic, the classic answer is that you, in order To grow

spiritually, you be bible.

Yes.

You need to be praying. Mm hmm. And That's, at least in a lot of ways, the oversimplified answer of

Luke Angle: Right.

Cam Angle: You're not going to really get any argument out of those two, those are the two key growing spiritually.

Yes. And we're talking, of course, we're assuming Jesus Christ.

Luke Angle: Yes.

Cam Angle: faith in Jesus Christ, right? You're not going to grow [00:02:00] spiritually Um. But I guess maybe an important, a problem, but a a part of spiritual growth is a a willingness to let go of the things that have kept us And, um, and then the ingredients of the growth at least in my estimation, a regular or consistent, uh, presence in God's word, scripture, and a regular consistent There are other things that I, you know, we can talk about them being, you know, those two main ingredients.

There are other things critical, but you're not going to get, you're [00:03:00] I'm

Luke Angle: I'm curious what, um, how might someone who maybe even someone who has confessed relationship with Christ, um, and has kind of, in, in maybe a big way, kind of like, like they've said, yep, I'm a Christ follower, or I've committed to Christ, or I believe on Christ, um, but how might someone who's, fits that category, still struggle?

to, um, surrender. Like, if you're saying that's a big key ingredient, um, like, there's that big yes to Jesus that kind of, like, marks a lot of people's lives, whether that's a come to Jesus moment, like a, you know, a youth camp, or a conference, or a Sunday service, or something like that. Or if it was just a, like, you know what, like, I think I am committed to this.

Sometimes it's not a big But, say they've got that big [00:04:00] Yes, how is, how could someone still be stuck by not being willing to

Cam Angle: submit or surrender?

Luke Angle: What does that look

Cam Angle: I would posit some theoretical explanations for that. And then There also are, ones.

I think from a theoretical, which maybe is not so theoretical, I'll say it's theological, maybe not theoretical, but

Luke Angle: Uh huh.

Cam Angle: Is that, it's been my experience that We stuck, unable to grow, even after we've made a commitment to Jesus, um, when we still there are at least still parts of that, crave or nurture.

There's parts of us that nurtures the life of sin within us flesh [00:05:00] and We have become,

with it.

uh,

we have not mourned our condition of sin.

Luke Angle: Mm-hmm. and

Cam Angle: what it, what it comes down to, and we've talked about this here before a little bit, is uh, full, a full awareness of the pervasiveness of our sinful nature.

and a complete of it. You know, we're not, um, to see what has kept us from God as a deeply seated condition rather than seeing it as just like, a, well, I just need modify my behavior and my morality a little bit. I seem to change a few life right? and then I will grow spiritually.

And if we that

perspective, I think [00:06:00] we, we miss what is really true about what the scriptures says about our life in Christ and our Christ is that we, we don't just modify behaviors. We don't just change our morality. We, we, we die to self and we die um. You have died to sin.

How can you live in it any longer? Paul says in Romans chapter eight or six. Um, and of it, a part of that stuck position is either a conscious unwillingness to put to death both the desire for and affection for sin. A conscious or a... I would, I would say maybe an an [00:07:00] unconscious or inability to recognize my continued the the idolatry of my heart or the my heart, where I'm still living as of the world, rather than living as one who has died unto the world, and unto sin, living fully to Christ So I think that's the, like, at the base of the theological, the base of the theological, I think it. it remains am I love? Do I still love Um, there, you know, [00:08:00] there's, there's images of this a little bit in scripture, I think probably the is that I don't, I don't know, this is maybe, this may be taking too far.

Luke Angle: Okay.

Cam Angle: Okay. I admit that, but I think Romans seven is intriguing. to me. It really is intriguing when talking about his and talking about the things that he wants to do, he can't do, and the things that he doesn't want to do are the

Luke Angle: Yes.

Cam Angle: and I wonder in heaven, Apostle Paul...

Would reflect back on his communication with the romans And thing About his struggle With sin, whatever it was. We don't know what it was but

Luke Angle: yeah,

Cam Angle: what would he say about it now that he no [00:09:00] But now he sees clearly because he's with the um, what would he say about his Relationship with whatever that sin was Would he say, yeah, you know, yeah, I, I said that I hated it and I thought I hated it, but there were certainly parts of my life where I was still nurturing the pattern of sin

Luke Angle: my life and my

Cam Angle: heart.

like, I was, I was protecting it from being fully sanctified by the Holy Spirit by it.

And whatever, whatever that would look like. based on what the sim was. So,

Luke Angle: Do you find, like, It's, this isn't biblical imagery, it's adjacent imagery, because I don't remember exactly where it, what literature the imagery of the two dogs is found in, in Hebrew, in Judaism, do you feed.

Cam Angle: [00:10:00] feed,

Luke Angle: Is the dog is stronger, right? Like, and that's, I think that's been, you know, thousands of self help

quoted that little idea and, like, talked about it in a gazillion different ways. But I think it originates in, like, Jewish rabbinic teaching somewhere, but I just

Cam Angle: Yeah, that would be, that's interesting to me because I don't believe that at

Luke Angle: I don't, I

Cam Angle: really.

I think that pre Jesus, there is only We don't us.

you know, the only righteousness that we have is the righteousness that comes by faith in Christ. So, we don't have a righteousness of our own. we, it's not like there's some [00:11:00] kind of like internal or eternal struggle between the good parts of us and the bad parts of us.

The good parts

Luke Angle: Mhm.

Cam Angle: And so, they are fully good. They're not struggling against what is bad. The bad parts in us is us.

Luke Angle: It

Cam Angle: fully us. percent us.

so, I get the premise, of course.

Luke Angle: I've

Cam Angle: and I've even, used... I Similar imagery, probably even in preaching. And I should probably stop that because , well, I don't know that it

Luke Angle: it's a little, it's a little, bit, it's a little bit dualistic, a little bit, uh, yin yang.

Cam Angle: Yeah. Right. which a

Luke Angle: biblical Well,

I mean, I mean,

like, it's hard because, you know, the

Cam Angle: does talk about the flesh and the spirit.

Luke Angle: Yes.

Cam Angle: And, um,

Luke Angle: I, I, and also like, unless you're like you were [00:12:00] going pretty hard, Calvinist there for a minute, I was like,

okay, okay,

cam . Like, um, but like I do think, like there, I don't know, this is a perennial debate of like, is there, um, in the newborn Christian as Christ is in us, like is Christ transforming.

Is there beginning to like, yes, all the goodness I have comes from Christ?

Is that transforming part of me, which maybe is like too niche of a like ontological argument to say like, where does the good that's inside of me reside?

Even if

it is ultimately sourced

from Christ

in me, is it residing simply as just like.

Me being like Christ Or is there, is there any part of me that is being renewed

Cam Angle: Well, since I'm not a good Calvinist, I'm a really bad Calvinist, and I am a good Wesleyan Arminian. I

Luke Angle: I would say

Cam Angle: that, yes, of course. I think that there are parts of us [00:13:00] that the presence of Christ within us is moving us, sanctifying us. and moving us on to perfection. As a good Wesleyan would say.

and bringing us into continual oneness with Christ, the power of the spirit.

And preparing us for ultimately receiving the inheritance that in the consummation of all times, the redemption of our bodies, like Paul says in Romans chapter eight. And, um, and the that is the work of the Spirit in us. right?

The, That by faith in Christ we have been given the Holy Spirit as a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance that is to come.

Right, and so that the presence of the Holy Spirit within us, which we believe I think it would be, you'd be hard pressed to make the argument that the presence of the Spirit in us is not actively working to sanctify us.

Luke Angle: Right.

Cam Angle: so, [00:14:00] um, and think Post Christ, you I think those who are growing spiritually.

would say and I would affirm this in my own perfect and I can I could name you a out As

Luke Angle: Right

Cam Angle: you

Luke Angle: each person who's self aware should be able to do right but

Cam Angle: good my wife about my life as good everyone that ever meets

Luke Angle: what

Cam Angle: right but what I can say I

do not struggle in sin with the same things that I over in my life, earlier in my life, or [00:15:00] earlier in my walk with Jesus, there are things that the Lord has given me definitive victory over in. Um, and not that it would not be easy for Fall back into those, but there, that comes both as a, like a personal decision to walk away from the life of sin,

Luke Angle: to

Cam Angle: and the power of God within me to preserve me in my There's, there's a good Kelvin, mic for you.

Luke Angle: So,

what, so what does this look like though, like, so we've kind of covered like maybe what's theologically going on that there's this, like, if we, you know, if we're not, um, if we're not at least in some measure [00:16:00] putting to death. sin or the flesh,

what does that look like? Mm-hmm. , like we, we've said, it's, it's got to do with the fact that like, I still perhaps love my sin more than I love Christ, what's

like,

what is that, I guess, what's like an indicator of that in someone's life?

They're trying to, is that me? If they're trying to self-diagnose,

Cam Angle: I may be a few things. a few things that are coming to mind. is, When, I think that there, possible explanation for what's happening there is when you lack conviction over the things that You know, when you, when you generalized, or [00:17:00] in a dangerous place of like you lack conviction.

You're,

Luke Angle: Yeah.

Cam Angle: and so, you you talk about sexual sin or something like that, when you've normalized it. it,

You know like, oh, well, it's like, it can kind of

Luke Angle: It

doesn't happen that much.

Cam Angle: much, or

Luke Angle: Yeah.

Cam Angle: stressed. I need the fat. I need, you know, like,

Luke Angle: Right.

Cam Angle: of thing. You know, So when you normalize, generalize, or rationalize, you conviction over the thing that you know is detestable unto the Lord or is not producing holiness in your life, then I think you're...

You that that's that's a pretty good you're, you [00:18:00] have not, you've not fully reckoned The weight of your sin yet. I've, I don't know if it's lately, a meme that's been going around. I don't think so. No. It's, I, I, um, someone I follow on Instagram had posted it, and then I saw a couple other people who I also follow, had reposted it and whatever.

I didn't repost it because I was afraid to, but, um,

really afraid to, but it just, I don't know,

Luke Angle: I'm not really I just, I don't

Cam Angle: But, um, and he didn't add any context to it, but I know that the context was the the secularization in both the secularization of the church, and the, essentially what it said was that Christians have no business celebrating the So if something is, something is detestable in the sight of God, detestable in the eyes of God, is detestable [00:19:00] according to Scripture, and Christians celebrating what has become detestable to the Lord, or what is detestable to the Lord, then I think that's an indication that you lack a Not that you lack Holy Spirit.

But that you have made both conscious or subconscious decisions to say, I do not receive, I will not receive. listen.

Luke Angle: Yeah.

Cam Angle: in This. Because and speaks and speaks and speaks and time.

Right. And then eventually we say, Oh, the Lord's not giving me any this anymore. Or

Luke Angle: mean, what it is

Cam Angle: is we've become hardened and

Luke Angle: Yep. speaking.

If I I feel like I may have said this once in a way earlier episode if I ever talked about like the movie bird box

[00:20:00] So movie bird box Netflix movie kind of

horror suspense bunch of monsters running around Most people who see the monsters like die

there's a handful like a small percentage of people who see the monsters in the movie and They become like Apostles or not apostles, but like they become like

They be they see these monsters and they're like, they're beautiful.

They become enamored with the way that these monsters look They don't die right away. Instead. They become like just enamored there they think they're the most beautiful thing in the world

and

these survivors will walk around in this post apocalyptic world after these monsters that if you see you die and They will fall in with a group of other survivors who are all trying to not see these monsters And then when they get a chance this this person will Take people and make them look at the monster and say like isn't that beautiful?[00:21:00]

Like and they're like holding their eyes open making them look at these monsters and they die all the while saying it's beautiful you have to look and like It's a fantastic picture or analogy of like the world often holds up and says, isn't this beautiful when in actuality ugly.

It's not It'll kill you. Right. So what we call beautiful and what the world calls beautiful underneath the lens of Christ is not always the same.

Cam Angle: I agree. Those are, those are really points. all of What we just talked about.

Luke Angle: Yeah. I think

Cam Angle: that there is something else. That's a big, but it is really and you and I have talked about it a ton, and then I was meeting with, um, yesterday, he's a um, So we [00:22:00] were just kind um, some of the experiences that we've had in counseling. We do a lot of counseling here at um, it, uh, is a um, and we were both reflecting that this is absolutely true or we've seen it to be that see when people are not growing we should talk about what it means someone's growing

Luke Angle: know someone

Cam Angle: about that. Let's go. Um, But when people are not growing spiritually, they're. probably is a significant part significant ingredient

Luke Angle: Yes.

Cam Angle: Um, not that like Adolescents,

Luke Angle: No. Yeah. They're

Cam Angle: not putting their deodorant teeth and

Are [00:23:00] tired all the time. Not, Not , not

Luke Angle: Right.

Cam Angle: But

Luke Angle: there,

Cam Angle: um, but there is an that they do not often consider desire to grow. And They wonder, why am I not growing?

I'm doing all of But they're not to the, their life. them in a... just kind of a dysregulated state. So, wonder if, since you're a little bit more steeped than I and how you would define about emotional

Luke Angle: Yeah. Well, like, it's funny because this became, this, this, like, there was some clarity I think when, when I, we, I was teaching, uh, the spiritual growth [00:24:00] class earlier this year. There was some clarity around that, um, that least crystallized for me while I was teaching the content. And I think there is this, um, Well, before I go there, let me answer the first question of, like, how do I classify that?

Like, it's an unwillingness to bring our whole selves, um, to bring our whole selves into alignment with Like, if Cause, like, we often, like, this, the way we conceive of ourselves, and the conceive of our spirituality is like, we're like, oh, I'm mind, body, and soul, like, like, my spirit, right, and we don't think of our spirit as having something to do with our emotions, as having something to do with our We think of those as three different categories, and [00:25:00] they don't really touch each What in fact is, is that they actually impact each other. A lot, right? Like in like the recovery world, there's that acronym HALT. What is that? Hungry, angry, lonely, tired, right? Uh, if you're hungry, or you like, you're more likely to relapse in your addiction.

If you're angry, you're likely to, if you're lonely, social isolation. If you're physically tired, you're more likely to relapse in your addiction. That's just like a simple, like, you ask anybody who's like, Recovered and and gone through that. They're like, yeah halt like those. Those are like if one of those is red flag for me um Some of those are physical conditions that impact an emotional state

Respond in a physical

acting out

Cam Angle: hungry

Luke Angle: No, I am the personification of those snicker commercials

Cam Angle: I am angry.

Luke Angle: All right, [00:26:00] like,

like if I'm in a mood, like, uh, Oxana is just gonna say, Luke, yes,

give me, give me, chicken nuggets

and I'll calm down.

Um, Why is that? Well, it's because we're all interconnected, and so like, I, like, your emotions are an important part of your spirituality, how you, uh, emotionally and relationally interact with other believers, um, how you emotionally and interact and come to God, right?

Or my coming to God, um, like, if, if, if my, if I'm like constantly Isolating myself relationally, life skills and that's impacting how I feel, I feel lonely, and then that's, I'm running to maybe a sin, a sin behavior, like maybe I, [00:27:00] uh, maybe I gossip in order to connect with people, or maybe I'm running to, or pornography, or an addiction, or something like that in order to cope with like, All of a sudden, like, you know, if you're, if we could talk about like, yeah, growing spiritually would mean stopping that sin, whether that be gossip or pornography or whatever, but if you also don't address the fact that you're Um, emotionally lonely because you're relationally isolating yourself and bringing yourself into fuller community.

you're going to have a really hard time addressing that sin. And that's just a practical matter, but I also think a spiritual

like that's, you know, someone might say like, well, I'm psych, psychologizing.

you're, you're you're making it too clinical or

whatever.

And I'm like, well,

[00:28:00] sure. And I'm like, well, I mean, like that's, but I don't think we need to surrender. Like, the, those parts to secularism.

I don't think we need to say, you know what, like, the fact that you're not spending time with people, and that, like, you're struggling with identity and emotional vulnerability in order to connect with people and healthy Uh, and that if you were to take care of that, that might take care of the emotional thing, and that might really help you follow Christ more and not lean on an addiction.

That's spiritual. I don't want to say that that's clinical or psychology. I, no, no, like I want to own the human experience and have that have a place inside the church, the Bible, and our life in I don't, so,

yeah. Um, I think, I think, so I guess that's how I kind of talk about that. But I [00:29:00] think one of the reasons that people Who love Jesus, because I've met people, I know you've met people who love Jesus, but are stuck in somewhere in this realm of I think one of the reasons that that's happened, one is the dichotomy I talked about, but the second is that we've made this, the marker of growing spiritually mature, is we've, we've missed it.

Cam Angle: I was, I was hoping this is where I

Luke Angle: Yeah, like, if, if you think, you know, oh, well, it's just like, well, I'll just, like, this was me at one point in my life when I was a younger believer, like, I thought the spiritually mature person read the most. Non fiction, Christian books, uh, read the Bible, knew the most theology and could argue theologically.

[00:30:00] Right? Oh, I can do all of that, right? And then I, I regularly read and pray. Well, then I must be, and I go to the church

the most.

Cam Angle: I'm there every time it's open.

Luke Angle: I'm there every time it's open.

Cam Angle: wednesday

Luke Angle: Right? I'm at a small group. I'm doing this. I'm serving. I'm, you know, I'm on the praise band. I must be spiritually mature then.

Cam Angle: Yeah, no, Well, I don't want to steal your thunder.

Luke Angle: No. did you have it? No, I mean, No, like, well, I think it's because we've, we've, the, the thunder is just the scripture. And that's that every time, uh, one of the New Testament authors talks about, like, how do we know someone is a Christian? They talk about

love. The love of neighbor and love of God.

What does Christ say, right? What is [00:31:00] the most important commandment?

Right? Love the Lord your God with all your strength, with your heart and all your mind. And then love your neighbor as

yourself.

Cam Angle: Yeah, Yeah. I think that that. Spot post enlightenment which is like on.

Post enlightenment Christianity has, has held up ascent as the marker maturity.

Luke Angle: Brain on a stick.

Cam Angle: Brain on a stick. in the room.

Luke Angle: The one who can quote, has the most bible verses memorized. The one who can talk theological circles around people.

Cam Angle: scripture, himself. Essentially says that you, it is our, it is your growing capacity to love God and to love[00:32:00] Paul, I mean, Paul thing. Head on in 1 Corinthians end of um, of 13, you know where he says If I can speak in the tongues of men and angels if I have Faith that can move mountains if I have wisdom that no one can fathom right, but I have not love You noise And, um And I think that as a piece We would Um, you know, the Holy Spirit us helps us more that, um, the scripture is clear about what the proof that in is

Luke Angle: Yeah.[00:33:00]

Cam Angle: And So, uh, sometimes return to marker.

Two people when they ask the question, am I growing spiritually? How do I know I'm growing spiritually? Well, are you growing one as a in a And um, would, say, and I don't know I could be wrong here But I would say

even maybe you know, maybe Jesus even Jesus use of the word neighbor Was not as

do. right

Luke Angle: Yes.

Cam Angle: wasn't

Luke Angle: it wasn't

Cam Angle: if the Lord was like, Hey, that are really

Luke Angle: Well, the, um, cause the, the attached parable.

Right to love your neighbor is the, [00:34:00] um, the Samaritan, who in the context is, is is Samaritan the opposite? Not, Not, a

Jewish, right. Right. The Samaritan

is the one not person Um, there was a really, There was a, yeah, this just calls into my mind that sometimes we get into this place where we're like, alright, I need to be faithful to love my neighbor.

And we go around walking around and we look at the world and we're like, who's my neighbor? Right? And we're walking around and we look at people and we're like, is this person my neighbor? Is this person my neighbor? And that's the question that's in our mind a lot of time as we're seeking to be faithful for that.

When really we need to learn from Mr. Rogers. And we need to come and say, will my neighbor? as cheesy as that is

Theology by mr. Rogers is not always a bad

way to go. Um

You know, like can we go up and can we like stop asking the question [00:35:00] of like who's my neighbor? Oh, they they're not my neighbor because so I don't have to love

them

But can I ask

Can't are they my you know, will they be my

neighbor? I think

Cam Angle: what happens is that we We see our neighbor as the people that we already That are most like us.

Luke Angle: They're Our tribe,

Cam Angle: Our tribe, right? That's our neighbors. But like, really is, can you exhibit the fruit of the spirit in relationship to the people or the person um, you, Would hate the most if you did not

Luke Angle: Could, could, could you hug

someone who

voted for the opposite candidate of Laughter

Cam Angle: are not [00:36:00] Right? Um, like, Could you love them? could you have joy in their presence? Do you have peace their life? Could you be patient with them or kind?

would you express goodness or faithfulness? Um, could you be self controlled? Could you be patient with them? Like, all of these things. we, the whole question of who is the neighbor?

We want to make the neighbor the people Right?

Luke Angle: Yeah.

Cam Angle: And even, I mean, obviously Jesus even had to say about...

Luke Angle: Yeah, what good is it even Not even

what did you call

Cam Angle: Even pagans? love the people that they

Luke Angle: pagans? Yeah, or the pagans love

the people who give

them gifts like, you know, or hang out with them Yeah, there's I [00:37:00] think there's a lot but it's definitely like Are we looking at markers of love for ourself as indicators of whether or not we're growing

Cam Angle: this may be a little bit of a bunny trail, but the whole statement of, well, person, but I, um,

Luke Angle: mean, like, I always have the question of like, okay, but what does that mean?

Like what what is that? Are you using that statement in order to justify something? Like

justify a behavior

towards them?

Cam Angle: what you think. So

Luke Angle: Well, like I would I guess this was something that was in my head like there is There's like two flip sides of these coins, right?

Like Love the [00:38:00] sinner, hate the sin Which, not in the Bible, um,

like, um, there is a point at which like, um, what I'm not, what, man, it's so hard because I feel like there's so many, like, the more divided our culture becomes, the more segments there are to talk to.

And,

no, you're, you're, you're to love And you're, and ultimately, like, their sin, um, is, and, and who they are, and like, their deserving of judgment is to be submitted unto Christ, right? And to hit, like, it'll either be taken care of at the cross, or in the final judgment, God is judge, like, you know, let's not get into needles, or specks and logs in our eyes and stuff like that.

But on the other side of the hand is there is a growing significant [00:39:00] portion of society that defines love as agreement or love as, um,

Acceptance. which I disagree with.

Right? Like, I don't like, no, I don't have to agree with you. I also don't have to think the thing that you're doing is good, but I can still love you.

Like I can still treat you with human dignity.

Cam Angle: be in your presence,

Luke Angle: Right.

And so, but that that's a, you know, that's a distinction that like, no, like you, you can still. Disagree with people, You don't have to, don't have to agree on everything and just because I disagree with you or would or think maybe a thing you're doing is not right or is not, you know, in line of keeping with God's will doesn't mean that I can't love you.

What's coming to your mind when you hear that, like, love the sinner,

hate the sin?

Cam Angle: think it's more, like, I think [00:40:00] really a actual person. sin,

Luke Angle: Not what they're

Cam Angle: doing.

Right? that, I think appropriate statement was Love You're a sinner. am also a sinner.

I am going to hate my own sin.

your It's not

Luke Angle: Yeah. Right.

Cam Angle: not gonna, I'm time hating your sin as if that somehow helpful. right? gonna love you. [00:41:00] and I will, That's Generally how I

Luke Angle: Yeah. I, I think a lot of time, not all the times, but good portion of the times when we, when we have a particular,

when

we get particularly frustrated with somebody or like a particular type of sin, a lot of times we're projecting like that's, it's, that's something that like, Like, even, like, I myself have to catch, right, like, am I, am I railing, am I really angry because that's, because they're really just that annoying, that detestable, they're doing something really that bad, or am I really just angry because they're doing exactly what's inside of my heart, whether I'm acting on it or not, you know, and, that's a.[00:42:00]

You want to, you want to find a way to grow if you're struggling to love somebody is use them as a mirror and say, what about them resides in me as well.

Am I angry at them just because I'm actually

So if we've kind of we've talked about what's what's not maturity What what actually like what is it, you know markers of maturity like ultimately like if you have not love Doesn't matter how big your Bible is

How do you then grow?

Cam Angle: going to church.

what do you do? Well, how Okay.

Luke Angle: I think we should do a part two for that

Cam Angle: do a part two for that

but I think we can maybe preview some, Mm-hmm. answers.

Mm-hmm. . Um, and I [00:43:00] will, I'll just let the cat outta the bag towards what I think is the most, most overlooked aspect of spiritual growth, and think it's, and but um, community that has as its central Um, Because I see lot, I see people talk about all the time the different families that they family. family. It's my football team's family. It's like, it's it's my family. Family, family, family, family, family. just, what that tells me is one, that there is an internal yearning that God has placed in us all What it also tells me is that people are so, [00:44:00] um, is that maybe the church has not done a great job at, building actual gospel community because People are trying to find their community in Um, but it also makes me want to say, like, please, please, please, please, please find gospel community because community And That's a funny thing to say because like, can you, get hurt in community that you find in the church? Yes. absolutely. you can, the gospel, a gospel centered community has as part of its core DNA, forgiveness. Um, Um, and essentially no.

expectation of that in other forms of [00:45:00] family or community, you're just ostracized, you're just put out, you're done, it's over, and so gospel community the sustainability, I guess for lack of a better word. Sustainable relationships that mutually encourage that fan, the flame fan, the flame of Christ and that, um, provide accountability provide, um, vulnerability and provide.

uh, Encouragement, and prayer, and support, and family life, and sharing of resources, and all of that. Like, that's what I mean by gospel community. Um, so, while there are other things for sure that, um, that

[00:46:00] key to spiritual growth, I think, That's the one I would want to talk about in part two because I think it's the

Luke Angle: Yeah. hmm.

Cam Angle: there's a big, you know, section of Christian belief that says that I don't need anyone to grow. I just, you know, I just go out into the Bible. I'll just go into the woods my Bible, my

Luke Angle: and accidentally start a

Cam Angle: Right.

and like look, no one's saying that that's a bad

Luke Angle: Sure. But

Cam Angle: I'm just saying that like,

you know, Jesus needed and wanted

Luke Angle: Yeah. I think my, I think my own, like, I affirm that a hundred percent because there's, people have played such a big part in my growth. Like, in my discipleship. And then, like, the other [00:47:00] piece that I'd kind of tease that, like, we don't, we obviously don't have time to unpack is that, like, I think, At least our particular, like, sector of the Christian community that you and I are from, and that we're probably mostly talking Um, needs to learn to learn, lean into spiritual disciplines that are more formational and less so we'll talk I'll talk more about exactly by that, But I do think that we just because we're so fixated on like being brains on a stick Knowing more about God and theology and stuff like that that we've we turn Bible reading prayer into information And we're maybe not doing the practice [00:48:00] with the view of shaping our hearts. shaping us in a longer term, more like subtle and reflective and contemplative

way.

Cam Angle: Love it. Alright, well so part two.

Luke Angle: Yep.

Cam Angle: it take for spiritual growth?

Luke Angle: Yep.

Cam Angle: Basics that you always hear

Luke Angle: Yeah.

Cam Angle: You

Luke Angle: know.

Yeah.

Cam Angle: and... Being in prayer. about

Luke Angle: that. Nope.