Let's Talk About the God Bless the USA Bible

[00:00:00] Luke: It's the Jeffersonian Bible. Thomas Jefferson, uh, had a Bible made, and it was published and printed by the United States, and they were supposed to go, Wow, like, the President of the United States, while he was in office, had an official Bible made, and it was published by the United States. But wait.

[00:00:19] Cameron: But wait!

[00:00:20] Cameron: There's more. Those who, if you know, you know.

[00:00:24] Luke: Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke. I'm Pastor Cameron. And this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have honest, uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Cameron, uh, we were talking, we got a Text into the text line, um, this morning. And we figured we would use that as maybe a jumping off point to have some discussion today.

[00:00:52] Luke: Um, it's in the news. People were maybe talking about it. Um, so our, our dear listener. Dear listener, um, messaged us and said, um,

[00:01:10] Luke: that was just like things that come out of you when you just, you're talking anyways. All right. Um, I don't know if I'm the only one who will ask this question or not, but I was troubled by the news newest announcement of the Bible that you can buy for 60 with the U S constitution declaration of independence and one Other U.

[00:01:31] Luke: S. document in it. Is that even right or proper? It feels so wrong that I don't even have the words to describe how wrong it feels. That is the question that we were kind of served up. Mm hmm. So we So in case I guess for the context if anybody doesn't know the Bible that's being talked about necessarily is called the God bless the USA Bible It's being endorsed by former President Trump And Lee Greenwood, who wrote the song, God bless the USA.

[00:02:14] Luke: Um, is there any other important details? I

[00:02:19] Cameron: mean, it's got copies of the declaration of independence, the bill of rights, um, constitution, constitution,

[00:02:29] Luke: um, a handwritten copy of the, of the chorus. God bless the USA. It's got like American flag embroidered on the front of it.

[00:02:38] Cameron: Yeah, large print, large print, King James version.

[00:02:41] Cameron: Yep. Um, apparently not, not having anything to do with the, his current financial needs to make bond in any criminal cases. Um, it's well, no royalties. Apparently he, no, he's

[00:03:02] Luke: getting royalties. So the, so Trump. Promoted this on his his social media.

[00:03:09] Cameron: I'm not sure

[00:03:10] Luke: it's truth platform or whatever something like that I I don't know you not been paying that close attention, but he is Licensing his name to be used in the advertising of it.

[00:03:24] Luke: Okay, it's unclear how much or if He's getting paid per sale, like if he's getting a cut or how much he was paid, like wholesale for his endorsement and use of his likeness and name in endorsing the Bible sales. So he is getting, it is getting sold or he is getting paid somehow, presumably. It's said to have not been used for his campaigning, was what the Associated Press article I read said.

[00:03:57] Luke: Um, but there, there's no other, like, he's getting paid, he has other financial things at his disposal. You know, or in the news that he's presumably trying to pay off and stuff like that. So is that money going directly towards his court cases and bonds and other things like that? Like, you know, who knows?

[00:04:17] Luke: It's his personal finances. Um, but that is the backdrop and the implied statement inside of most of the news stories. Sure.

[00:04:26] Cameron: Sure. So, the, the person that sent the question asked, is this right? Yeah, is this right? Proper? Do we have an issue with it? I think she feels like she's got an issue with it, but, um, so, what do you think?

[00:04:45] Cameron: Do we have an issue with it? I kind of do.

[00:04:48] Luke: And what are the issues? I think I have an issue with

[00:04:50] Cameron: it. Yeah. Yeah, I got some issues with it, too, I think. Um,

[00:04:54] Luke: yeah, I think, because we've talked about, like, nationalism and it, and like, you know,

[00:05:03] Cameron: I want to say this like right at the beginning, my issue with it has nothing to do with Donald Trump, right?

[00:05:09] Cameron: Like whether or not he's your preferred candidate or not. Like this is not an anti Trump thing for me at all. This is a, this is kind of a separate thing.

[00:05:18] Luke: But anyway. Okay. I like, it's this, I think for me, it's this conflation because like, What we're doing is we're taking non religious documents, right, so like the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Bill of Rights, all things that are man made, not inspired, even though people kind of maybe treat them that way, um, not the Word of God, not God.

[00:05:51] Luke: For the universal church like and then putting them interspersed inside of the of along the Word of God along inside the translation and then

[00:06:09] Luke: Like that's just kind of to me conflating and confusing what the Bible is supposed to be like It's like the Bible is supposed to be God's word, not a like God's word plus these other things. And if we're putting these other things in alongside something that we believe is true, inspired, What are we saying about these other documents inside of it?

[00:06:39] Luke: And so, and that I'm not, you know, I'm not against like, um, Bible study notes. I was going

[00:06:44] Cameron: to say, do you have, do you have any issue with like devotionals or like commentaries or like? No,

[00:06:53] Luke: I mean like, as long as like you understand what that is, right? So like if you're, you're reading a Bible and like, there are Bibles that have like Study notes that are supposed to help you understand the Bible and then there you've got ones that are even more devotional Oriented inside of there and stuff like that.

[00:07:10] Luke: Like as long as you understand what you're you're reading, but again, it's focused towards God It's focused towards the Bible. It's like it's at least endeavoring to do all of those things Yeah, what why does the Constitution belong next to the book of Matthew?

[00:07:28] Cameron: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I'm not, I, I wouldn't, I don't presume to know like what their reasoning is other than my assumption from what I know of Christian nationalism and the like, is that, well, God has ordained, you know, the United States of America.

[00:07:58] Cameron: as a Christian nation based on the founding fathers and the founding documents. And we, all of the ills of that America has now are the fruit of, or the product of the dwindling prevalence of Judeo Christian values in our country. And so what we need to do Is we need to reintegrate, um, you know, uh, the Christian faith with our like national identity in order to get back to how God designed America to be.

[00:08:46] Cameron: Right. I think that's their, that's the idea. Yes. That's the idea. That's the idea. Um. But, um, I think it misses the mark quite a bit and I don't, I don't really, I don't know really that I have so much issue with the documents being in the Bible at itself as, as I have issue with what putting the documents in the Bible implies.

[00:09:20] Cameron: about the Christian faith and about nationalism and kingdom mindedness. I think that's where the issue is for me. Okay. It's not so much that like, Oh, as I'm flipping through the Bible, I'm going to come across the page that has the constitution on it. I mean, for me, the main issue is like, what does this, what is the undercurrent of theological implication The undercurrent of theological implication is that, um, Christianity is decidedly American, right?

[00:10:02] Cameron: That, um, that the Judeo Christian values that we have are that America, the United States of America, is the place in which those values are incarnated most faithfully. And, um, and, and we are, you know, the gold standard for what it means to be a Christian nation. As if they're even like that, that even in, in and of itself, the name or the moniker Christian nation is a little bit of an oxymoron.

[00:10:41] Cameron: Yes. Um, and, uh, I, so, so I think that that is generally speaking, the problem that I have with it, um, similar to one of the things that you said, which is like the scripture being universal. In its authority of all those who express faith in Jesus. Um, it, um, you know, not, not that I think there's people in Egypt, Coptic Christians in Egypt or Orthodox Christians in Romania or wherever who are going to be.

[00:11:19] Cameron: Purchasing the God bless the United, the USA Bible. I mean, I get it. It's probably a, it's a, it's a niche market.

[00:11:27] Luke: Um, well, if you consider the entire, like the population of the United States niche, but

[00:11:34] Cameron: yeah, well, that's just, that's my point is that in regards to the Christian faith, we are niche, right? You know, because we are a small percentage.

[00:11:48] Cameron: Of the, uh, the nationalities in which Christianity is, uh, I will say a major cultural factor, but, um, Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion. Faith, right. It is not an American faith. It is not, it is not, you know, it is not planted in the same soil as Lee Greenwood song. God bless America. It ain't, you know, Jesus wasn't white with blonde hair and blue eyes.

[00:12:23] Cameron: He didn't grow up in Detroit. Right. You know, Jesus grew up in the desert, essentially darker skin than you and me. Yes. He was a middle Eastern man. He looked like. Um, and that Christianity spread into the middle east and into Africa long before it's spread into any other part of the world. Western European, um, your European type of place or environment.

[00:12:57] Cameron: It was in Egypt long before it was in Rome. And so, um, for me, the whole thing just implies that it's, it stinks. Yeah. It stinks to me of. American or Western exceptionalism when it comes to Christianity and it nationalizes something that is, um, something that is universal. And, um, I think gives, Christian nationalism in the United States.

[00:13:39] Cameron: Um, another thing, another poorly organized theological belief to rally themselves around. Right. Um, so I think that's what, that's what kind of myths. Me. Yeah about it is like we we are the we are the engrafted branches To the covenant promises and covenant people of God. We're not like the we're not the root We're the ones that we're the ones that made it

[00:14:15] Luke: if anything there would be a more Viable argument for a god bless israel bible.

[00:14:22] Luke: Oh, jeez There there would be more of an argument. I'm not saying necessarily if that's the right thing. I'm

[00:14:28] Cameron: um, like My my reaction there was not in disagreement my reaction was in the Reaction that that would get you know what i'm saying, right, you know, like especially in um On the liberal spectrum of American

[00:14:48] Luke: politics.

[00:14:48] Luke: Conservatives probably wouldn't be quite so. You know, they wouldn't balk at it. But, you know what might make you uncomfortable would be to say, Well, what about a God bless South Korea Bible? Cause South Korea is like, I think probably has got the highest percentage of people Practicing and confessing Christians out of all the nations

[00:15:07] Cameron: I can think of I think the largest Christian church in the world is in South Korea if I'm not mistaken, correct,

[00:15:12] Luke: right So and so like that feels strange to us to think about because we don't typically think of South Korea very much to be honest But to think of somewhere else as having more of a bigger market share on Christianity Like that's such a silly thing to say but to put it in those terms like probably would be South Korea.

[00:15:34] Luke: Mm hmm

[00:15:36] Cameron: Yeah, 100 percent or other areas where Christianity was like formed and practiced way before. I mean, like, how about we say this virtually every country in existence right now, maybe with the exception of some of the Balkans and former USSR that, you know, when they broke up and created their own, like.

[00:15:58] Cameron: But virtually every nation that we had that we know of now you look at a globe had Christianity before We are like one of the youngest countries yes to exist right right and And and so like yeah, I don't know I wonder if there are like nationalist I wonder if there are Christian nationalist movements in other countries

[00:16:25] Luke: That'd be an interesting question.

[00:16:26] Luke: I'm sure there are. I don't know. Cause I don't know. Like definitely there are people who are advocating for Christian values inside of their nationality and their country. But, cause that's not what we're necessarily talking about. We're talking about this idea that like, um, how would you differentiate that?

[00:16:51] Luke: It's not, cause it's not just that we think. It's this conflation of what it means to be an American and what a Christian is and conflating the church and its authority with, uh, wanting to kind of mash the church into, um, into the, into the government or conflate the two or have the government support in this really explicit, authoritative way, the church and

[00:17:17] Cameron: things like that.

[00:17:18] Cameron: Yeah, I think so. I think it, honestly, it moves it to a It moves it to a theocratic standard that's still ruled by man, right? You know, so it, it wants, I think Christian nationalism wants, um, wants a government that is theocratic in nature, but that is still controlled by the men and women that we want it controlled by.

[00:17:45] Cameron: You know, um, which is antithetical to the very nature of theocracy, which is real ancient Israel was, you know, and which if you read, you know, I, I, there, there could, there, there could be, I should say, there could be an argument made that God's desire and design for his people was theocracy. Mm hmm. Yeah.

[00:18:12] Cameron: You know, if you trace back the forms of government that we see in scripture and we're reading, I'm reading through the old Testament actually right now and, um, and I'm not to the point yet where Saul becomes the first king of Israel, um, in my reading, but I, I've read it before. So the people of Israel, they want a king like all the other nations around them.

[00:18:41] Cameron: And God's like, I'm your

[00:18:42] Luke: king. Right. He, he was, he didn't, he would raise up prophets or judges on occasion, but other than that, he was like, just follow what I've laid out for you. Yes. And you'll be fine.

[00:18:53] Cameron: Yes. He, but, but that's the point is that God raises up the people, the, the, the judge or the prophet.

[00:18:58] Cameron: Yeah. Right. But now with Saul, the people are like, no, like we want our own King. Yes. We want it. That's really what it is. We want a nationalist. King. Yep. Not a theocratic

[00:19:14] Luke: one. Right. And that brought so much trouble for the king of Israel. It never,

[00:19:18] Cameron: they never recovered. They never, like it was, it was never good.

[00:19:24] Cameron: It wasn't good until it was Jesus and Jesus wasn't a part of the, was part of the government. No, he, he came from the line of the one who is the king. King David, but, um, you know, God's desire was never that like, yeah, let me set up a human king for you. Right. It was, I will be your God. Right. And you will be my people.

[00:19:50] Cameron: Um, and, uh, and obviously that didn't, that didn't happen. So, um, I don't remember where we were going with that or how we started with that one. We

[00:20:01] Luke: were just talking about like, Christian nationalism and it's, it's kind of like roots and stuff. Um, and you know, I remember like, cause there is this like, I remember watching this documentary quite, quite a while ago.

[00:20:15] Luke: So it's kind of, it's kind of dated now. Um, you know, it's like maybe 20 years old or something like that. Um, it was a Christian documentary. It was making an argument. Um, yeah. For, like, all of America's woes being that we've lost the fact that we were meant to be a Christian nation. And, one of, like, the, like, closing, this is meant to, like, convince you of the argument, like, boom, nail on the coffin, like, the thing that, like, the host of the, of the movie, the documentary was like, Wow, when were we supposed to have this really big reaction to?

[00:20:53] Luke: Was the Jeffersonian Bible, right? The, the Um, President Thomas Jefferson, uh, had a Bible made, and it was published and printed by the United States. And they were supposed to go, wow, like, the President of the United States, while he was in office, had an official Bible made, and it was published by the United States.

[00:21:17] Luke: But

[00:21:17] Cameron: wait. Wait, there's more Those who if you know, you

[00:21:23] Luke: know, no, you know, right So that might sound like right like if I just say that on the surface like the president may had an official u. s Bible made but if you know anything about that Bible You know, you should probably just waste a waste burn it. I don't know.

[00:21:41] Luke: I just like no you shouldn't burn it I'm not for burning books But you shouldn't like you should put it in a museum as an artifact and probably never open and read it Yeah, because Jefferson what he did was essentially he opened up his Bible and then he took like Scissors or a razor knife or whatever and he cut out all the parts that he didn't like Or the parts he didn't think were real or essential.

[00:22:07] Luke: And so he just kind of took out essentially anything miraculous, including the resurrection, and just put what he thought were the, the most important parts of the Bible, kind of copied paste them into its own thing, and had this very much smaller version of the Bible printed. And it's smaller because he got rid of all the things he didn't like.

[00:22:28] Luke: And he didn't agree with, including Jesus being resurrected from the dead. And then he had that printed. And it had people read that in schools. And so yeah, people did at one point read Bibles printed by the US government in schools. Except I wouldn't read that Bible in my church. No,

[00:22:47] Cameron: or ever, but anything.

[00:22:50] Cameron: Um, and I think that might be that that might get a little bit more to the core of, um, an issue with Christian nationalism would be that it, uh, it, it does have, I think, horse blinders. To parts of the scripture that do not fit its nationalistic narrative or identity. Things like humility and sacrifice and forbearance and forgiveness.

[00:23:21] Cameron: And, um, they kind of ignore all the sections where Jesus had an opportunity to fight back against the Romans to raise up a kingdom. a powerful kingdom. He had the followers. That's why they, that's why the high priests, um, were afraid of him is because if he, during Passover week in Jerusalem, if he rallied the crowd, then they were going to overthrow the Romans and it was going to be the Maccabean revolt all over again.

[00:23:53] Cameron: And, um, and so that was kind of how he, it was thought. that the Messiah would come in and, and, you know, set the people free and reestablished the Jewish, the Jewish kingdom. And, and Jesus, um, his, um, his way of existing or his way of interacting with the powers of the time was way different. Yeah. Um, he was virtually silent.

[00:24:30] Cameron: In the presence of pilot, you know, where he could have pilot was kind of poking him and prodding him and goading him into say the right thing. So I can let you go. Say the right thing so that I can let you go. And he. And he just always kind of, he just always refused, he refused. He was like, my kingdom is not of this world.

[00:24:55] Luke: Right. So I'm not even going to

[00:24:56] Cameron: engage with you. Right. So if, if Jesus is our King, then our kingdom is not of this world either.

[00:25:05] Cameron: It's not. Yeah. And like, so, you know, I can get flack for this. I don't really freaking care. Like I have no more, like, Nationalist loyalty, the United States than I do to Egypt or Italy or Istanbul or Turkey or Russia or Korea or South Korea. Like I, I don't care. I don't care. Right. Um, and, and why don't I care?

[00:25:36] Cameron: Cause I'm not a citizen. I like, I'm a citizen of heaven. Mm hmm. My citizenship is in heaven. Right. Um, and well, you, you, you're using the benefits of your citizenship, the United States right now, freedom of speech or religion. Like, yeah, I'm not, I'm not unaware. Of the benefit of living in the country that I live in, but it is not the thing that drives my relationship with Jesus.

[00:26:04] Cameron: Like, Oh, because I'm American, I'm Christian, right? No, I happen to be an American who is a Christian. Um, or I, I am a Christian who happens to be American

[00:26:15] Luke: and I would figure out how to be a whatever if I was somewhere else. Exactly. And, and that's like the thing about the Bible. And like, if you look at even Paul's ethics in, in most of his literature is a figure out how to submit to Christ, submit to Christ first and above all, always figure out.

[00:26:39] Luke: The degree to which you can submit to the authority or rulers above you and then get along, right? He doesn't Paul doesn't have a concept for a religious state in the New Testament when he's writing to the church Because it because they're persecuted when he's writing to them The Bible knows much more about Christians being persecuted than it does with them having like Religious and governmental power success on the national level, right?

[00:27:11] Luke: And you know, I remember being younger and learning history and learning about like the roman catholic church and how it was a governmental powerhouse Through the middle ages through into the renaissance and even up into the beginning of the enlightenment was when they finally started to lose some of their power and like you can go and you can look at like all the really crazy excesses that that brought into the church of like the church making Essentially governing decisions for multiple countries and like how that led to wars and like England was constantly catholic and protestant and catholic and protestant back and forth.

[00:27:57] Luke: The crusades Um, the king james bible was born out of a political like Initiative from king james. That's why it's named It's not named after a theologians named after a king who was protestant and wanted to make a statement and make the people happy and so he had the uh King James Bible translated now, I'm not saying that that means it's a bad translation.

[00:28:18] Luke: I'm just saying that's the context in which it was like Authorized that's why it's sometimes called the authorized version right because King James authorized it And so all that can play out and I think sometimes because we're not Catholic Evangelicals are not Catholic. We like, well, the Catholics like to point our finger at the Catholics and all of the bad things they did in history And then blind ourselves to the fact that we're trying to kind of do some of those same things In our own political time and climate but differently because we don't have a centralized like Pope Structure or something like that.

[00:28:55] Luke: We give ourselves a pass. Yeah

[00:28:59] Cameron: So

[00:29:05] Cameron: In summary. In

[00:29:06] summary,

[00:29:07] Luke: I mean it's like, it's not like a, I don't know, I have less problem I guess with like, God bless the USA Bible. I don't think, like if I had a choice, should that Bible exist or should it not exist? I'd probably say it should not exist. But, I mean it's not like if you have one, that it's like a, yeah.

[00:29:28] Luke: It's not necessarily a bad Bible, it's basically just King James translation. If someone

[00:29:32] Cameron: were to say, should I read the King James, or should I read the God Bless the USA Bible, or should I read no Bible at all?

[00:29:39] Luke: Well, read the God Bless the USA Bible. 100%. Versus reading no Bible at all, for

[00:29:44] Cameron: sure. But like, if you're going to be like, should I buy that Bible?

[00:29:48] Cameron: I just kind of, I think it's cool, I think it's neat. I'm like, Zoom in camera. I'm like,

[00:29:58] Cameron: no, it's like, no, it's not. It's dumb. It's dumb. It is. I don't, I don't know. I do not believe for a single second that it's like, actually

[00:30:16] Luke: it's a fad or that

[00:30:18] Cameron: it's like, it, I don't believe for a single second that it's anything other than a publicity stunt. I'm just going to say that. Like, I don't, I don't think that like Lee Greenwood and president Trump were like, you know what?

[00:30:32] Cameron: What we really need at this time in the play in this time and place is a God bless the USA Bible. Right. That'll do it. Right. Just how about you spend less time niching out the Bible and more time reading it? Yeah. Read the one you have. Yep. Read the one you have. Yep.

[00:30:53] Luke: It's

[00:30:55] Cameron: But but it's more you see and people are like, oh you just don't like president trump Like I said, this is not really a president trump thing for me Not really any

[00:31:03] Luke: presidential candidate could do this and I would still think it was dumb 100

[00:31:08] Cameron: And and this isn't this isn't even really about politics for me.

[00:31:11] Cameron: This is also about like niche bibles I kind of have

[00:31:14] Luke: a do you do you dislike camo bibles as much as I do? Please tell me

[00:31:19] Cameron: The sportsman bible the men's bible the youth bible the boy's bible the girl's bible the women's bible like the Those who are left handed bible, right? It's it's just kind of like a see like let's stop making money off of it Yeah Right.

[00:31:36] Cameron: Let's stop making money off niching out Bibles and start reading them. Yeah, you know and like Um, I don't have a problem with study Bibles, life application, Bibles, things like that that help you try to better understand the word. But even that gets a little bit, so it gets a little overbearing after a little while.

[00:31:58] Cameron: It just does so yeah, and don't listen if you've got one of those bibles don't go throw it away Don't don't don't don't go say that your pastor or a pastor said I shouldn't have a life application bible I shouldn't have a study bible. That's not what i'm saying. You should have those things. I have Yep, one of those bibles at home.

[00:32:17] Cameron: Like it's just just don't I have a

[00:32:20] Luke: New american standard life application

[00:32:21] Cameron: bible. Yeah, like It's fine. It's good. Read it. Study it. Absorb it. Right. You know, it is the bread of life. Um, just like, just let me be annoyed. Okay. Just, just let me be

[00:32:36] Luke: annoyed. It's just annoying. It's just, yeah, it's overly. So I guess that's why it would, you know, to answer that question is like, that's why it bugs us.

[00:32:46] Luke: It's just this, like, what is it? What? Also, it just feels like we're being sold too. Yes. And manipulated. Yeah.

[00:32:56] Cameron: Right. Manipulated into being like, well, if you don't have this Bible, you obviously don't want God to bless the USA.

[00:33:03] Luke: I don't know. I can't personally get like, like when you start thinking about it, like, Why is it the King James translation?

[00:33:12] Luke: Is it because it's the most Bible y? It's the most Bible y, but it's also the one that's like copyright free. It's in the public domain and it's well known. And so they can use the text of the King James and not pay royalties to anyone for it. Same thing with the, with the, uh, government documents. Those are public domain can be copied and put into their, like they're not making an NIV.

[00:33:39] Luke: God bless the USA Bible because that would cut into the bottom line a little bit presuming some motive here But I don't know you're right and the KGV is also the most Bible II,

[00:33:51] Cameron: but it's the way that God talks

[00:33:52] Luke: It's not he talks in Aramaic In Hebrew, you know sometimes Greek

[00:34:01] Cameron: Well, so if you're watching this or listening to this It's after Easter

[00:34:06] Luke: Yep, it's after Easter.

[00:34:07] Luke: So happy

[00:34:08] Cameron: resurrection. Yes. The Lord is risen. He is indeed. He is indeed Uh go and believe the good news Oh, we uh, thank you for listening And always tuning in. Um for asking good questions if you have any other questions Or any topics you want us to explore leave them in the comments below if you're watching this on youtube or text to our text line seven one six two zero one zero five zero seven We'll

[00:34:36] Luke: catch you next time.