Preachers & Fashion: How much should a pastor spend on clothes?
Ep 60 - Preachers and sneakers
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[00:00:00] Luke: Welcome to the Uncut Podcast. I'm Pastor Luke and I am Pastor Caleb, and this is the Uncut Podcast, where we have honest, uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Here we are. Here we are.
[00:00:23] Luke: Yeah. How do we talk about this? So, um, a listener sent you and I a, like a post. Um, Essentially, like, um, I don't know if we're gonna name names or not, um, we don't, I don't feel like we necessarily have to. Uh, but, you know, it was a post that was kind of going around of a, uh, Pastor, um, who was up on stage, and they had, somebody had recognized the outfit that he had on, um, some might think it was fashionable, uh, and they had like a price tag on his, on what the, what the article of clothing was that he was wearing, it was something to the tune of like um, Two grand.
[00:01:12] Luke: Two grand.
[00:01:13] Cameron: For a, for a sweater.
[00:01:14] Luke: For a sweater. So, um, and it, I didn't think it looked all that great. Um, but that's my own taste. Like.
[00:01:25] Cameron: This is not, we're not, we're not giving fashion advice on the blog. We're not, or yeah, on the podcast. We're not, we're trying to, we're not trying to say like, hey, why would you wear something so silly? Yeah. It's, it's more about like, There there's a lot of there's been a lot of question about Um Situations like it.
[00:01:48] Luke: Yeah, what was that? Was that 2020 2019? When like the preachers and sneakers account like first kind of hit big.
[00:01:56] Cameron: Yeah, it was something like that. Yeah
[00:01:57] Luke: Yeah, I remember I was in chicago at the time. Yeah certain roommate. I think that was around it was pre covid, but it was Close to it. I think
[00:02:06] Cameron: and if you're not familiar with preachers and sneakers, it was a social media account that would Um essentially take it would It would posterize pastors and with wearing shoes and then it would like.
[00:02:21] Cameron: I'll tell you how much the shoes are worth. Yeah. Or how much they paid for them or,
[00:02:25] Music: Mm-Hmm. ,
[00:02:26] Cameron: whatever. And or, and sometimes it would do with whole outfits Yeah. In an effort to kind of like bring to social media conversation. Like what do people feel about Yeah. Their spiritual leaders, their pastors in the Christian faith.
[00:02:42] Cameron: Mm-Hmm. , which is typically a faith that has a, a pretty core value. It's like, um. It's like, it's, uh, that's the word I'm looking for. It's simplicity. Well, it's simplicity, but it's, but also it's, um, like it's relationship with the poor and it's service of the poor. Um, and, and it would essentially call into question the, uh, spiritual appropriateness of.
[00:03:20] Cameron: the spiritual leader or the pastor wearing outfits or shoes or whatever that were in like the Like a whole outfit be a couple grand. Yeah, thousands of thousands of dollars, right?
[00:03:32] Luke: Yeah,
[00:03:33] Cameron: and And um, and there was I don't even know I don't follow preachers and sneakers anymore So I don't even know if it's still active.
[00:03:43] Cameron: I'm assuming it probably is probably not as much as it was It
[00:03:46] Luke: is and I'm trying to remember it might have I'd have to google it but like I I think it was just another it was a sneaker head Yeah, which is what they call themselves if you're really into like expensive sneakers Like limited edition stuff and all that.
[00:04:03] Luke: I think he was just posting it. I don't think he was trying to do anything No and it kind of morphed into that because he himself was just interested in shoes and so he would just like and then eventually it evolved into like Whole outfits. I remember It, there was like even posts of pastors being seen not on stage.
[00:04:25] Luke: Like I remember seeing like outfits and like luggage, like seeing how expensive the pastor's wife's luggage package was that they were using in the airport or something like that, like, or walking around with Gucci belts. and all that kind of stuff. So it's been a conversation that's been happening for a while now.
[00:04:45] Luke: It kind of comes back up every once in a while when somebody notices like how expensive one particular pastor's like outfit or something is. Um, and it's, I mean, if you're, it's, I mean, for those of our listeners who are watching, You can see that Cameron and I are not necessarily the most, I mean, we're not ugly, but like, we're not the most fashionable people.
[00:05:16] Cameron: Yeah, like, I'm wearing a sweatshirt that is from the gym that I work out at. I'm wearing, I have one pair of jeans, blue jeans, and I'm, Wearing them today and I wore them yesterday to preach in. Yep Right, I didn't wash them last night just
[00:05:33] Luke: because we're saving the planet people, right
[00:05:36] Cameron: You know, like I got a pair of trail running sneakers on and like this is kind of how I just dress every day Right
[00:05:43] Luke: t shirt and jeans man
[00:05:44] Cameron: And I would say like given Like the original comment was about a 2, 000 sweater.
[00:05:51] Cameron: I don't think my entire wardrobe is worth 2, 000 and I'm not joking. Like, I really am not joking. I like, I mainly wear t shirts that I get from like the gyms that I train at or that are giveaways or stuff like that. Like I don't, but, but that, but what I'm, I don't want that to be like a, that's not a value judgment at all.
[00:06:16] Cameron: Um, cause I actually like. to dress nice. I like to look good, you know, look good, feel good type of thing. And I like nice clothes. I do too. Um, uh, but I, I just, I don't have the type of expendable income that can,
[00:06:32] Luke: you
[00:06:32] Cameron: know, that I Could justify going out and buying a Even a suit a full a full suit that costs a grand right half of the half of the cost of the sweater, right?
[00:06:47] Cameron: so yeah, so preachers and sneakers like kind of brought light to this and became really like a Um, Christian and non Christian sensation. A lot of non Christians jumped on and we're like, see, right. This is hypocritical Christians. That's the word I was looking for. Supposed to be have solidarity with the poor and look at these big.
[00:07:11] Cameron: Like spiritual leaders, how much, how many homeless people could that, could that feed? How many, like, you know, all those types of comments. And it became a little interesting phenomenon. I hadn't heard much about it since just this past week. And that, um, you know, I saw a couple of posts about the cost of the sweater.
[00:07:33] Cameron: This famous pastor was wearing on stage and it was an ugly sweater. Why would you pay that much? What are the spiritual implications of doing something like that?
[00:07:41] Luke: And it is a bit of an insider world. Like if you're not deep into fashion, it's really hard to like, like, I don't really get it. Like there's like, um, I don't know if any of our viewers or listeners would really be the audience that's watching the, the, the TV show, the bear.
[00:08:00] Luke: I haven't watched it, but I know it's like blown up virally recently. And I watched this video of this guy who was. Comparing this the t shirt apparently like one of the main characters has this t shirt You can buy the same t shirt that he has. It's a white t shirt for a couple thousand dollars It's like it's this designer white t shirt, right?
[00:08:28] Luke: Exactly and so the guy was making fun of it a little bit. He's just like he was like he was like This is the, and he was trying to juke you out a little bit by saying, no, actually this is Ains from Walmart, like trying to kind of show how ridiculous it is that like, no, you don't have to go buy that exact designer t shirt in order to get a fit that looks like that and all that jazz.
[00:08:51] Luke: And so like it is from an outsider's perspective, a little bit ridiculous. I don't get it to be honest. And to be,
[00:09:02] Cameron: honestly, I would say like, From an insider's perspective, like, I think the people who spend thousands of dollars on a white t shirt are the outsiders, to be honest with you, like, I don't think the people that are like, let's, let's buy a 10 pack of, from, of Haynes from Walmart are.
[00:09:19] Cameron: The outsiders, I think we're actually like the inside normal people. Yes, but I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying. Um, but I, I think I want to have a little bit of a conversation about, um, cause I have, I have mixed feelings about this. I do too, actually about what is the, should we care?
[00:09:43] Music: Um,
[00:09:45] Cameron: should we care how much, whatever the guy on stage is wearing, how much it costs?
[00:09:51] Cameron: Do we have a right to know? Do we have a right to question a decision to purchase a 2, 000 sweater? Um, what are the, what does it say or communicate theologically or spiritually or does it not communicate anything at all? And like, do we, basically, do we have a right to be like the fashion ombudsman for every pastor that happens to grace a stage or screen?
[00:10:28] Luke: Well, like the question for me though, it like, cause We could just stick, we could just talk just about fashion, but I think it kind of misses the larger conversation because I'm like, okay, well, fashion, what about cars
[00:10:43] Cameron: or homes or
[00:10:44] Luke: homes or hobbies? Yeah. Like I have
[00:10:48] Cameron: expensive hobbies,
[00:10:50] Luke: right?
[00:10:53] Luke: Right. Like we spend our money, right? Like we we're pastors at on, so I feel like there's this balancing act, like Pastor as person. Yup. It's like human. Yup. Pastor as like under shepherd. And in like, and, and, uh, sitting in the office as pastor and serving the church and, and being the hands of feet of Christ in some regard.
[00:11:25] Luke: Um, and in balancing those two because Like, like we could, you know, like we could talk about, like, it's really easy to identify how expensive, you know, some fashionable sneaker or outfit or something like that. But like, you know, questions come to my mind of like, well, what about pastors that are wearing suits?
[00:11:52] Luke: Some suits can be really expensive. Just as expensive if not more expensive than that sweater
[00:11:59] Cameron: You
[00:12:01] Luke: know, right like is there a preachers in suits account
[00:12:04] Cameron: or preachers in cars like you said cars? Yeah,
[00:12:07] Luke: so it it really Blossoms out into an even larger conversation that gets kind of a little bit harder to uh Navigate I feel like the fashion one is really easy to pick out because it's the one that's on camera
[00:12:23] Cameron: Yeah, right.
[00:12:26] Cameron: Yeah. I don't, I think that's certainly a part of it. I don't think, I think it, it doesn't really, I wonder for me if it changes the conversation really much at all. I think the issue for me is really not even so much the fashion, the clothing choice, as much as it is like, do we. Do we have the right to do that?
[00:12:54] Cameron: So do I have the right to say, you know, you shouldn't spend the money that you make, which I'm assuming is his church elder board leadership structure has agreed upon a salary,
[00:13:09] Luke: the books he sells, the books he sells, the
[00:13:11] Cameron: music that he produces, all of that. Um, Like, and it's not like he's stealing the money from the church.
[00:13:19] Cameron: It's an agreed upon amount for the services that he renders. It's what he lives on and uses. So now do we from the outside be like, okay, let's say you make. Half a million dollars a year. I have no idea what it no idea what it is. Yeah, that's an outrageous sum to me But I'm it's a different cultural thing for me Like I just like sure I can't even wrap my mind around that but like say he makes half a million dollars a year running Pastors one of the biggest churches in the United States, right?
[00:13:51] Cameron: Okay Then do I have the right to be like well No, but you have to spend that in a way that is, um, not spiritually offensive. And is that my job to do that? Like, what if he's debt free? What if he is extraordinarily generous and is just like, upholding the biblical standard of not flaunting his generosity in the public domain.
[00:14:27] Cameron: Right. What if he's very, very, very, very generous and his hobby or the thing that he likes to do is buy his fashion and buy designer clothes.
[00:14:36] Luke: Right.
[00:14:37] Cameron: Um, is it really Too extraordinarily difficult, different for him to buy a 2, 000 sweater and wear it on stage than it is for me to buy a 10, 000 motorcycle and drive it to work once in a while or right around on the weekends, like, tell me what the substantive difference there is other than you may have a personal, a more personal look into, you know, My life or his life to try and examine whether or not that's appropriate given.
[00:15:14] Cameron: Our cultures, our contexts, our income, our churches, our scale, yeah, whatever. So the problem for me with the whole thing really is not even the sweater or the amount.
[00:15:27] Music: The
[00:15:29] Cameron: problem for me is I don't know that I would want people to pick apart my financial decisions as if they had intimate knowledge. Of my financial situation or the generosity or not generosity or the way in which I give or serve or donor how much I make or don't make or what my debt load is or what it's not.
[00:15:52] Cameron: Right. Like, um, I don't know that I, I think I would, I would want to say to a person like, you don't even have an idea what my life is like financially. So how could you say the purchase is inappropriate?
[00:16:10] Luke: Yeah.
[00:16:11] Cameron: Or like, what, I mean, what do you think about, what do you think about that? Is it, do we have a right to call into question the financial practices of our pastors and spiritual leaders?
[00:16:25] Luke: Um, I feel like the, if I, let's put it this way. If I was in, if it was, if I was like mentoring, like a young pastor had a relationship with him and he was kind of going in that route, like he was kind of like, he liked fashion, was buying like really expensive sneakers and outfits and stuff. Like I'd sit down and I would say, like, is this wise?
[00:17:02] Luke: Like, and have you thought through the implications and the things that you're communicating when you wear these in front of people on, on stage in particular? Like, you, like, if you, like, I'm not, I don't want to, like, leverage a lot of guilt and say that you can't do that in your personal life. But, like, when you are speaking from the stage, Supposedly preaching the word like we care about our language.
[00:17:29] Luke: We care about our presentation We care about the way we present all of that all of that matters And I don't think it's too far of a stretch to say that what we wear also matters Because I couldn't get up there and have like a t shirt with like explicit Language on it or something like that. That would be Inappropriate or something sacrilegious on it.
[00:17:51] Luke: Yep. So You what we wear does matter. Where that line is drawn is a bit of a personal conviction. So if I was had a relationship with someone, I would want to have like a conversation with them and, and challenge them to think through the implications and their boundaries on that. But for somebody that I don't know,
[00:18:14] Luke: I just probably wouldn't go to their church,
[00:18:16] Cameron: to be honest. Why though? What if all other things being all other things be so like theology is good philosophy philosophy of ministry is good Yeah, I like to
[00:18:29] Luke: associate all the other things I have in my mind around that church, right? So I Don't know. Yeah,
[00:18:39] Cameron: I think I Cuz like I like my my I I wouldn't go to that church either right, but it's not because of the pastor's fashion decisions Yeah It's really got nothing to do with that.
[00:18:53] Cameron: It's more about like a philosophy of ministry. Um, uh, like some theological things that I can't really like,
[00:19:03] Luke: right.
[00:19:04] Cameron: Comp compromise with like, so, but it's not, it has nothing to do about like. What he shows up on stage wearing
[00:19:13] Luke: Hmm I guess my personal line would just be different. I think I don't know it bugs me.
[00:19:24] Luke: It bugs me at like a conviction level But not and like not at a place where I feel like I can articulate it so I don't know if it's just a like It's me reacting from like all the ways in which like I've grown up and the convictions I personally hold. Yeah. And me just not being able to see to the other side of it, particularly when it comes to just what, what you're doing on Sunday morning.
[00:19:50] Cameron: So here's another question then.
[00:19:51] Luke: Yeah, I can hear this other question coming. I don't know if you, I
[00:19:54] Cameron: don't know if you do it, but like, cause here's it. So there's another pastor who I think we both respect really well. We happen to share a hotel with him at a, um, okay. At a recent leadership conference that we went to.
[00:20:10] Cameron: And he came, he has come under, he pastors, the biggest church in America. Uh, he has come under some scrutiny because whenever he travels, he hires a driving service to drive him around and they open his doors and drives big, fancy SUVs and doesn't do any of the driving and like, um, and so, yeah, And, you know, been accused a little bit of being like, kind of, kind of bougie.
[00:20:38] Cameron: Like, dude, just drive your own car. Like, just, just drive. Why, why do you need, why do you need a driver? Yeah. Um, and he's never addressed it as far as I know, publicly, never like been a thing. It's just what he does. Um, so like, what about, you know, practices like that?
[00:21:00] Luke: Right.
[00:21:01] Cameron: But like, we have a different. We have a different, like, perception of him as a leader, and agreement with him as a leader, philosophically speaking, or methodologically, even theologically, um, and would you go to that church?
[00:21:19] Luke: I'd be more inclined to go to that church. But that practice doesn't bug me as much. It's a bigger church. It is a bigger church. That practice doesn't bug me as much. It's still, it's still hard for me to put myself in his shoes and, and say, that's, that's what I would do. I kinda, I a little bit get it because like, I just got back from vacation and man, vacation is kinda not fun when you got a deal of traffic everywhere.
[00:21:45] Luke: I'm going
[00:21:45] Cameron: to like, I, I, I think I know why he does it. It's completely like, it's a complete guess, but I'm pretty sure I know why he does it, but besides the point, right,
[00:21:55] Luke: like,
[00:21:56] Cameron: because he, like, he is a guy listens to pretty much everything that he puts out, read pretty much everything he puts out. And he's very, very clear that he is the most boring man to ever walk the face of the earth.
[00:22:06] Cameron: He eats the same thing for breakfast, the same thing for lunch, the same thing for dinner virtually every day. Right? He knows exactly what he's going to eat. It's delivered to his office every day at the same time, right? He creates like very rigid discipline and habits and everything like that so that he can save all of his mental energy for the thing that matters, which is creating content to serve the local church.
[00:22:29] Cameron: And I would be willing to bet that this is one thing where he was like, I don't want to have to think about.
[00:22:36] Luke: He can be connecting with his wife or he can be talking with people. He can be delegating. He could be writing He could be prepping his notes for teaching. So like I get like that's all in my mind, too That's why I'm a little bit less harsh on this one
[00:22:50] Cameron: So yours your sense then is that like it matters who's doing it?
[00:22:56] Cameron: Mm
[00:22:58] Luke: hmm. I don't know This is I I don't know. No, I think it's not so much who's doing it. I guess like Like, like, the, there's a methodological reason for doing that.
[00:23:14] Cameron: Maybe.
[00:23:15] Luke: Maybe. Maybe. We're giving some generosity there. I don't know what the methodological reason for wearing really expensive things on stage would be.
[00:23:28] Music: I
[00:23:31] Cameron: mean, I, I, I think I could make an argument for it.
[00:23:34] Luke: Really? Being like relevant? Like, is that the, would that be an argument? I mean,
[00:23:38] Cameron: name, name another church that is so, like, hell bent on being relevant. Oh my gosh, yeah. Of connecting with that type of audience.
[00:23:47] Luke: Yeah. A hundred percent.
[00:23:48] Cameron: You know?
[00:23:49] Luke: Yep.
[00:23:50] Cameron: So, it.
[00:23:53] Luke: Advertising is good advertising in a sense. Yeah.
[00:24:02] Cameron: See that. Honestly, like my, as I circle back around to the point, I, I'm coming back to the point of like, I don't think we have the right.
[00:24:10] Luke: Yeah.
[00:24:11] Cameron: I don't, I don't think that we have the, Unless it is like openly egregious and obviously like an obvious, I don't know that we have the right to place judgment on a decision like that.
[00:24:34] Cameron: Um, I think there like are really, really egregious examples. What? Like Kenneth Copeland having three jets. Because, you know, I'm happy to name that dude. Happy to name him.
[00:24:54] Luke: What about Creplo Dollar?
[00:24:56] Cameron: When your last name is dollar, you better be careful what you're spending your money on, you know, you know, um, there are really, really egregious examples.
[00:25:08] Luke: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:25:09] Cameron: Um, but when we don't have really much to go on in terms of like, right there, like what their situation is or like what they spend their money on, like he might be the most, he might be the most generous person in that church.
[00:25:26] Luke: Yeah.
[00:25:27] Cameron: And then what, then what are we going to say?
[00:25:32] Luke: And he might be, you know, he might be generous, like, uh, you know, we, maybe we'd need to do a, uh, a topic about this at some point, but like, you know, maybe he's tithing more than ten percent, maybe he's tithing 40%.
[00:25:48] Cameron: That's what I'm saying. It's like. But he's still
[00:25:49] Luke: got so much left over. Right. If he's at a certain scale.
[00:25:52] Cameron: Right. It's like it, it, you know. Yeah. If he, what if the church's salary for him is 500, 000, but he gives away 350, 000 of it because he has income from other sources not associated with his ministry there at that church. Yeah. You know. Right. Then we're going to say like, no, as maybe this is, maybe this is at the root of it.
[00:26:13] Cameron: Our pastors called to a vow of poverty,
[00:26:20] Cameron: like is as a pastor of, and as a Christian, must I take a vow of poverty is the term, um, to Show or be in solidarity with a simplistic life or the poor in which Jesus served. And that I aim to serve as well. Yeah. Like, is it required of me that I be that, that like, is that a requirement as the Lord asks?
[00:26:56] Cameron: Well,
[00:27:01] Luke: what do you do with like the passages of like, it's easier for a camel to fit through an eye of a needle, whatever heck an eye of a needle is, um, than for a rich man to enter heaven or, uh, the son of man has no, uh, home or bed in which to lay his head. Um, like, What do we do with like passages like that?
[00:27:25] Cameron: Um, I think that we hold them in tension with the passages about The, the generos generosity of our resources. Mm-Hmm. And to whom much is given much is expected. Mm-Hmm. . And, um, you know, examples like, um, uh, two Corinthians eight, two Corinthians nine, where Paul is open Mm-Hmm. with the Corinthians about how their wealth, the, the generosity of their wealth goes on to.
[00:28:03] Cameron: Um, serve in the function of spreading the gospel throughout the Mediterranean world. And that thanks is big is being given to God because of their generosity. So the gospel is going out. into other areas of the world because there has been extraordinary generosity. Well, the back end of that is that they are, were extraordinary gen, extraordinarily generous because they were extraordinarily wealthy.
[00:28:28] Cameron: Mm-Hmm. . They had a lot of wealth. Right. And so as they were generous Mm-Hmm. , right. That generosity allowed. Yeah. The spread of the gospel. Mm-Hmm. . Um, and so I think that the question is not how much do I. Make, and is there an inappropriate amount to what I make? I think the question, the more appropriate question is how generous will I be?
[00:28:56] Cameron: Where do, what, where do I, do I recognize the place that what I have has come from,
[00:29:05] Music: whether it's
[00:29:06] Cameron: 500, 000 a year, whether it's 50, 000 a year, whereas it come from, Who has provided it for me and what will I do with it? Yeah, what, what will I do with it? Will I, will I bury it?
[00:29:27] Luke: Yeah. Will I
[00:29:28] Cameron: bury it for fear of losing it?
[00:29:31] Cameron: Um, parable of the talents or will I put it to work? So that when my master returns that which has been entrusted to me is multiplied for the benefit of his kingdom, right? So I I think the I think the bigger question for me is not how much is this dude spending on his sweater? But how generous are you how generous are you
[00:29:52] Luke: right?
[00:29:53] Luke: And that's not at the end of the day our business
[00:29:56] Cameron: our business or yeah, well like to know that we Right. We can't.
[00:30:01] Luke: Ultimately it kind of, um, I think the conversation very quickly devolves into a, like, kind of a, a pretty unhelpful space, um, or at least it can, because like, who is he to us, right? He, he's, he's worth of note because of the influence he's having on larger Christian culture.
[00:30:32] Luke: And. And, uh, and addressing him when, or addressing his content, his things, when it becomes pertinent to us or to like,
[00:30:45] Cameron: you
[00:30:45] Luke: know, but at the end of the day, like, I'm not him, I'm not even like able to go to his church. So like. I don't what what level of discernment do I even need to exercise on him from this far of a distance?
[00:31:04] Luke: Why do you think why do you think it is such a like, uh, such a hot button issue for pastors? Like why do people care so much about the pastor doing this? Why isn't there an account of like You know, pew sitters that are wearing 2, 000 cardigans.
[00:31:27] Cameron: Cause I think there's this principle of transference and counter transference, right?
[00:31:32] Cameron: Where we see that for us, we see pastors sometimes this is a generalization, but it's a pretty regular generalization that happens. Yeah. Um, that we see pastors as the like, um, stand in. for the presence of God. And there is like a, it, it becomes, I think, difficult to relate to, um, spiritual leadership, pastors, especially whose lifestyles are so significantly different than our own.
[00:32:21] Cameron: I'm certain there are people at his church that don't. Buy 2, 000 sweaters, right? Or can't, right? Um, and so there is this sense of like otherness mystique, um, that he takes on because of his prestige and his resources. Um, and I think that there is, while it is like, And, and that, that like, um, relationship between a congregation and their pastor happens at every scale, every, every scale it happens, whether it's a super big church or it's a small church like ours.
[00:33:13] Cameron: Right. Um. Which is why it becomes really, really difficult for congregations and people when pastors fail morally and show themselves to be the human beings that they are, because at some point in our relationship with them, we have elevated them to a place where they're not just humans. There are more than that.
[00:33:41] Cameron: And so how could you do that? How could that happen? Like my faith is broken because this person has, I thought that they were above the brokenness of the world. Yeah. And it turns out that they are not that we're not. So I think it's a hot button issue for pastors because there is this sense of like, but aren't you supposed to be better?
[00:34:04] Cameron: Aren't you supposed to be different? Aren't you supposed to see that that money that you spent on that should have been, should have been spent like fixing the poverty problem? Fixing the hunger problem fixing the homeless problem
[00:34:18] Luke: projection a lot of times
[00:34:24] Cameron: a little bit. Yeah.
[00:34:25] Luke: Yeah.
[00:34:26] Cameron: Mm hmm
[00:34:27] Luke: it's definitely like Not that I'm going out and buying 2, 000 sweaters, but there have been like instances where I have like I have wondered about like Um, like I have a, I have a nice apartment. I like my apartment. Yeah. Um, but when I first like moved here, a lot of people, they would say, I heard you had a really nice apartment.
[00:34:56] Luke: I was really self conscious about it because how much, like that was a conversation piece. And I was like, is it too nice? Like, like, like there, like that happened in my head because I was like, I don't want like people at the church to think I'm some sort of, um, bougie new pastor that just got hired. I'm not, right.
[00:35:18] Luke: Well, um, but like I, I, like in, in the reason that that happened is cause I know that that. Happens like right or wrong. Yes,
[00:35:27] Cameron: right. Yeah, it happens to us all right all of us You know it happened when I bought my motorcycle I bought a really I mean, it's not a forty thousand dollar. No motorcycle, but it's nice.
[00:35:40] Cameron: It's a nice motorcycle Right. It's cool. It's yeah, it's it was used but I bought it and it was in great shape and Bought it for good money. And I did get one comment. It was like, Oh, it must be nice. Must be nice to have that, be able to buy that. And I'm like, must be nice to what must be nice to like. I don't know.
[00:36:07] Cameron: Spend 8 years going to school. Spend 20 years in the field. You know, must be nice to what, buy used vehicles all the time and pay them off and not have car payments or not have credit cards. Right, it must be nice to work 40 50 60 hours a week. It must like is this
[00:36:28] Luke: the Dave Ramsey show? Yeah, like
[00:36:31] Cameron: It must be nice to it must be nice to what save your money so you can pay cash for Something that you want over long periods of time like well, yeah, I guess you're right.
[00:36:42] Cameron: It is nice It is nice, but it's not because I make like a six figure profit Income or anything like that, you know, it's nothing nice about that. Like, yeah, you know, um, I've worked hard to have the little that I have and I'm so grateful for it. Um, but at the end of the day, it was like the comment was like, you have no idea,
[00:37:08] Luke: right?
[00:37:10] Luke: Cause we only ever see a small glimpse of it.
[00:37:13] Cameron: First couple of years of our marriage, Sherry and I existed on Spaghetti and Hamburger Helper. Like it's taken us 20 years to get to a place of like where we are financially stable. Not living paycheck to paycheck. Sherry doesn't work outside the home. Like we've made sacrifices to like, make sure that we're, We can uphold our core values.
[00:37:37] Cameron: So
[00:37:37] Luke: like
[00:37:38] Cameron: without someone knowing the back story of someone's financial life or what they've done to get where they're at or what they make or don't make or their debt or whatever, I think, I just think ultimately it becomes a futile attempt to bring to like, it becomes a futile attempt to make sense out of.
[00:38:00] Cameron: Why they would make the financial decisions that they make
[00:38:03] Luke: it becomes a little bit of a speck in the log Yeah situation. Yep, like Why why not? shouldn't I just be more concerned of my household and how I followed the Lord and then Let the Lord judge the rest of the world. Um, I think like, cause otherwise we're just going to be angry all the time.
[00:38:26] Luke: Honestly,
[00:38:27] Cameron: bitter, bitter, jealous, and on generous. Yeah. Because then we, you know, well,
[00:38:34] Luke: when, if I had that much, I would be generous, but I don't. So I'm just not going to be.
[00:38:40] Cameron: Untrue. Right. You know, right. No, no. If you're not
[00:38:43] Luke: generous now, you won't be generous. Exactly. That is, it's a decision. You have to make it every level.
[00:38:47] Luke: Yeah, that's
[00:38:48] Cameron: yeah.
[00:38:51] Cameron: So we weren't trying to name names other than Kenneth Copeland and crypto crypto dollar. I'm speaking to you, brah, speaking to you.
[00:39:06] Cameron: That, that's not, it wasn't Kenneth Copeland or Creflo Dollar that had the 2, 000 sweater. Although I'm
[00:39:11] Luke: sure they wear pretty expensive things anyways. Um,
[00:39:14] Cameron: um, but I think it's more like the talking about the principle because I think it's important. I mean, well, important to me, it's important to me, I don't know, maybe not important to you guys who are listening, but,
[00:39:24] Luke: well, I think it's helpful to.
[00:39:26] Luke: You know, I don't know. Maybe people aren't on social media as much as you and I, maybe they don't see it as much. Um, which if that's true, good for you. Um, it's right. It's not necessarily edifying. Yeah. So,
[00:39:40] Cameron: well, anyway, thanks for listening this week. Hope you, uh, found the conversation relatively helpful or entertaining as always.
[00:39:48] Cameron: If you have any questions, We can always text them to us or comments or whatever. We love your suggestions for podcast topics. So it's really helpful to us. Uh, you can drop them in the comments or drop us a text on our text line. 7 1 6 2 0 1.
[00:40:08] Cameron: Um,
[00:40:12] Luke: you thought too hard about it.
[00:40:15] Cameron: Anyway, Luke will superimpose that on the screen. It will be. I have forgotten it.
[00:40:20] Luke: It's also in the description.
[00:40:22] Cameron: Yes. Um, and if you would, wouldn't mind liking the episode, wherever you're listening to it, or rating the podcast as a whole, sharing it with others. That would be great.
[00:40:31] Cameron: We'd really appreciate that. Thanks for
