Tyranny of the Urgent: Fighting for Spiritual Health
E62

Tyranny of the Urgent: Fighting for Spiritual Health

Luke:

Welcome to The Uncut Podcast. I'm pastor Luke.

Cameron:

I'm pastor Cameron.

Luke:

And this is The Uncut Podcast where we have honest, uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Today, we're not in the in the normal studio.

Cameron:

No. We are wickedly on location. Wickedly? Yeah. I don't know why it's wicked though.

Cameron:

We're on location.

Luke:

It's pretty fly.

Cameron:

It is pretty fly for a bunch of white guys. We are here at a little camp and retreat center. Yep. We're in Chautauqua Lake and attending, the simulcast of a conference Yep. For

Luke:

For pastors?

Cameron:

Pastors, church leaders. Mhmm. Yeah. Called the Basics Conference. You might be aware of it.

Cameron:

If not, it's the first time that I you've been to it.

Luke:

I've been to it once before and watched some of the teachings from it before.

Cameron:

I never have. So it's my first exposure to it and content is good so far. Yeah. So been grateful for it. And the weather's beautiful, so in the midst of a pretty busy, well, we had a super busy week last week.

Cameron:

We did. And, Why was it busy, Cameron? Well, we had launched the second service that we've been talking about. We did. Here on the podcast for a little while and been anticipating and working towards.

Cameron:

And I don't know, by all by all accounts that I've received and in my own experience and talking together as a staff, I think we think that it went pretty well.

Luke:

Yeah.

Cameron:

As far as like the

Luke:

The logistics of it?

Cameron:

Just like a worldly execution standpoint, you know, like just

Luke:

Church happened?

Cameron:

Church happened. Like People

Luke:

were where they were supposed to be?

Cameron:

Yep. Yep. But grateful for that. Regardless, it was busy. It was a busy week and so we didn't get a chance to record on our normal schedule.

Cameron:

Yep. And now we were gonna be at this for a couple days this week. And so our normal schedule is missing, like, 9 in our rhythm again.

Luke:

Yep.

Cameron:

And so thought here during one of our breaks in between sessions that we would try and record a quick little podcast, talk about some things that we've been talking about this week already, and, anticipate that it's not just a ministry thing or a faith thing, it's, I think it's a human thing that we that people experience. So

Luke:

Yeah. Yeah. Because we were, like I had almost forgotten about this. It was on my calendar, but I had almost forgotten about, like, this little conference thing and that we were gonna take some time to be away. And when you initially reminded me of it, I was like, oh, I don't know if I wanna do that.

Luke:

Mhmm. Because I was like, I just had such a busy week and it's and I feel like there's still so much to do at the office right now. Mhmm. That getting up and, like, taking more time out of the office just feels like I can't possibly do that.

Cameron:

Yeah. Yeah. And I was I was the same. I was like, you know, when we put this in the calendar and committed to coming, I didn't put kind of 2 and 2 together about the schedule of launch of the second service and all that we'd be building up to. And when I looked at it, I think it was like Sunday afternoon or something like that, I looked at it in the calendar, I was like, oh, okay.

Cameron:

There's such a long list of things that I need to get done this week, and that I need to bring my attention to.

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

And then even even outside of the list, it felt like on Sunday, Sunday at church, Sunday evening aft even after church into my evening with my time with my family, there was, several situations that were, from a ministry standpoint, that were, like, screaming for my attention.

Luke:

Yep.

Cameron:

Not in a bad way, but just, like, needing a pastoral, some focus. Mhmm. And, it was like when will when will will there ever be, this is a joke that a lot of people say, it's like, oh, if I get this done and I get this done and I get this done, then everything's going to slow down. And I can feel a little bit of like rest. Yeah.

Cameron:

Right? Not just a ministry thing. I think that's a life thing. Yeah. And I kinda felt the same way is, like, when is this all gonna slow down?

Luke:

Yeah. Well, because I I I I think you too, probably, we had both been, like, April was, April was packed.

Cameron:

It was packed full. Yeah. And

Luke:

it was kind of like hoping that we'd like, okay. We get done. We'd launch the second service, and then we can, oh, take a breath. Mhmm. But now we're here, and I'm like, I don't know if I'm gonna get to take a breath yet.

Cameron:

Yeah. Right. And so there was a I think there was a point where both of us, I saw it on your face on Monday morning, yesterday morning, about this, and I was feeling it too, but had, you know, had, like, kind of made up my mind

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

That even though I didn't really wanna come Yeah. I I both didn't I did wanna come and I didn't wanna come. You know? That even though I didn't wanna come but did, even though there was a 1,000 things on the to do list, that, that it was really, it was it was it was important for my soul to not be a slave to the to not always be a slave to the urgent.

Luke:

Yeah.

Cameron:

Because what is urgent or what what presents as urgent in our lives is not always

Luke:

It's not always the most important thing.

Cameron:

Most important.

Luke:

Yeah.

Cameron:

Right. And I think that we get that confused a lot and it ends up really realigning and misaligning our priorities and, and what makes us and keeps us healthy and what is best for us. We we are generally we people are generally slaves to the urgent without, without asking the question, is this important? Mhmm. Or is this the most important thing?

Cameron:

Not that it's unimportant, but is this the most important thing that I must do right now? And so when you So the to do list in the office, the to do list at church Yep. Is long. For sure. And the thing is is like we could get ourselves into a habit or a pattern of saying like, oh, well, I'm gonna do the to do list so that I can get done with the to do list and then I can do all the important things.

Cameron:

Right. The reality, when's the last time that our to do list has been empty? I don't remember at times.

Luke:

That's when I got hired here. Yeah. There was

Cameron:

not a to do, there's, like it's not as if we stay, if we stayed in the office all week and we just cranked on the to do list. Right. That we would get it done and then there would be nothing else to do. Yeah. And that we could then, there's animals behind us.

Cameron:

Yeah. And that then we could like finally relax or do the important, no, no, it's always, it's always gonna be there.

Luke:

Because there's, like, these, like, longer term, big term projects that, like, I don't know. That, like, that, like, get that we wanna get done because we were like, if we could get this thing done, like, this would have a really big kingdom impact. It would benefit, like, the church and all this. But those things typically aren't the thing they take they usually take a lot of time, take a lot of energy Yeah. Thought and prayer, and they don't get done quickly.

Luke:

And usually, if those things get done, nobody complains.

Cameron:

Or if they

Luke:

don't get done. You know? But if, like, we, you know but it's all the, like, well, this has gotta go be done by this day and this Yep. And if we're always making time for those thing for the urgent things, we don't always make time for

Cameron:

the important things. Right. And so what is, like, us being here rather than being at the office doing the to do list? What does that for you communicate is the important thing?

Luke:

Yeah. The important thing is like my own soul Mhmm. And my own, like, connection to my calling.

Cameron:

Mhmm. Yeah.

Luke:

And, like, investment in myself. Because, like, I was I was I was talking with my wife about it as we were driving home from church, and I was telling her about, like, this conference. And I was like, ah, I don't don't really wanna go, and she was just like, look. That's silly. And I was like, ah, you're right.

Luke:

Like, it just, like, it would be really easy right now to just kinda, like, cut out this thing that's meant to be a a blessing and an investment in in me after, like, what was a very very busy week, you know, like I think we were both at the church like almost every day.

Cameron:

Yeah, there was no days off last week.

Luke:

No, no days off last week, I I think they were

Cameron:

all long days.

Luke:

I don't think I had any days off the previous week either. And they were all very long, been at the office like a lot of 12 hour days the last couple weeks. Mhmm. And it would be really easy to just, just, to not invest in myself after that and just keep going. Yeah.

Luke:

But then what's, like, the long term cost of that?

Cameron:

Yeah, yeah, there's, the long term costs are pretty significant when we go, when we go, when we go, when we go, when we go, when we go without any sense of like how how is it that we, how is it that we are empowered to do ministry in the first place?

Luke:

Yeah. And

Cameron:

the how we are empowered to do ministry in the first place is by the life of Christ in us. Right. And so, the Alistair Begg, who is the main speaker at this conference that we're at, I haven't I haven't taken many notes so far and I kind of just prefer to listen and let it soak in rather than feeling like I had to capture a bunch of information. Yep. You know?

Cameron:

But there was, one thing that he said that I it was like one of only 3 things I've written down so far. Well, one thing that he said that he was quoting someone else. I don't know who, but it was a he was quoting a pastor who had essentially said to his new church or his new congregation, he was like, you know, I'm paraphrasing, of course, you know, like, I am here, and I will be, talking to the church, I will be your servant. Yeah. I will be your servant.

Cameron:

Mhmm. But you will not be my master. Right. And that for me was so significant.

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

Because it spoke to the heart that every Christian leader, whether you're a pastor or not

Luke:

Or you're in business

Cameron:

or family. You run a business, you have, yeah, you're leading your family, you're leading in your community, even like a community organization, like, you know, the PTA or in a sports team or whatever.

Luke:

Yep.

Cameron:

Like we're called to serve Yeah. As followers of Jesus.

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

And to serve to serve means to empty ourselves. Mhmm. To lay aside our, what maybe even is important or urgent to us, and to give ourselves for for the cause of the kingdom. Mhmm. And that's what that's what I aim to do.

Cameron:

I know that's what you aim to do Yep. In the way in which we function in our in church. Yeah. But, but who The church is not our master. Right.

Cameron:

We do not serve We serve the church, but the church does not determine why we serve, how we serve, or that we serve. Right. Like we serve the reason that we serve the church is because we serve Jesus. Right. And Jesus serves the church.

Cameron:

Mhmm. And Jesus loves the church. Yeah. And Jesus died and gave himself as an offering for the church. Yeah.

Cameron:

So I feel like a little bit that that what he said in the conference

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

Was like, alright. Yeah. Okay. That's why I that's why I I just left the to do list on my desk and came here for a few days Yep. When I should be back working on that is because I don't I serve the church, but it's not my master.

Luke:

Yep. Mhmm. Well, in the other quote that was, like, really key, I've heard it before. I have no idea who to attribute it to. But it you know, the church needs the church more than it needs my skill or anything else, it needs my personal holiness.

Cameron:

Mhmm.

Luke:

And, like, if we're not serving out of a place of like, you know, connection with the father and, enjoy and service, like, what, like, what are we giving? You know, like that? I was talking about this with our small group leaders the other weekend, and I was like, we cannot give what we do not have. Yeah. If I don't possess something, I can't give it.

Luke:

And I can't lead someone where I've not gone.

Cameron:

Yep. Yep.

Luke:

And and if if we're not leading if we're not living and leading out of a place of connection to Christ, like, we're just not gonna be able to do it. Yeah.

Cameron:

No. Mm-mm. No, I mean like we, you can lead and give out of your weaknesses. Totally. But even like, even your weaknesses are your, are like your possession.

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

And like when you, like so if you were to say like we can't, you can't give what you don't have, well I'm really weak in that area so how could I possibly give someone, give to someone out of this area of my weakness? Well our vulnerability about our weaknesses is actually the gift. Right. Is what we give to them because then it speaks to this nature of like our dependence on Jesus

Luke:

Mhmm.

Cameron:

For the things of our weaknesses.

Luke:

Making Christ magnified

Cameron:

in our weaknesses. Yes. He becomes the focus. Our weaknesses don't actually become the focus, they just become the environment through which Jesus is glorified. Exactly.

Cameron:

Yeah. So I am grateful to be here. Yeah. It's a new like I said, you've been here to this or you've experienced this conference before. I have not.

Cameron:

It's a different type of environment culturally, and even I don't wanna say theologically because it's not probably not very accurate, but

Luke:

They're not, yeah, they're not even like digging into anything that's super distinctive.

Cameron:

No. But, it's just a different vibe, I should say, for me. For sure. Different vibe. But I'm, like I said, I'm I'm appreciating the opportunity to just kind of sit and receive rather than feeling like I gotta capture a bunch of content or information.

Cameron:

So

Luke:

And it's kinda nice. We're doing it at this, like, at this retreat center park camp that, like, we're live streaming it. We're not actually in Cleveland at the at the conference. It gives us a little, like,

Cameron:

because otherwise, that we'd be at that church, and we'd be packed with

Luke:

tons of other pastors, which is fun in its own way.

Cameron:

Yeah.

Luke:

Chance to network and Yeah. They have a really cool bookshop.

Cameron:

Oh, jeez.

Luke:

Exactly what

Cameron:

we need.

Luke:

Yeah. Exactly what we need. But, but this kinda gives us a little bit of space to kinda Yeah. Be here, but be away and at the same time

Cameron:

Yep. Yeah. And be back in our own beds.

Luke:

At night.

Cameron:

At night. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm.

Luke:

I've been reading this book, kinda slowly called 400000 Hours or something like that, productivity for humans, something like that. Essentially, the whole premise of the book, it's really rather, depressing productivity book Because it takes like the average human length or human lifespan and puts it down into quantitative hours. This is about how many hours you have. That's the title of the book.

Cameron:

Boy.

Luke:

And he's just like, Now, if you start with that as your starting point, how does that impact the way that you're productive? And granted, this is a secular book. But he's just like, he he took like, he really goes into this, like, talking about, like, being really good at answering emails. She's like, you know, a thing in corporate world. We don't have to answer emails quite so much.

Cameron:

Mhmm.

Luke:

But he's just like, you set up your inboxes and your notes and your flags and your auto replies, and you just get really fast at getting the 0 inbox all the time. Mhmm. He's like, you know what that means? Just means you're gonna an answer more emails. Mhmm.

Luke:

The more efficient you get at doing that thing, the more you're gonna actually end up doing that thing. Mhmm. He's like, you actually might need to be kinda crappy at answering emails if you don't wanna just keep answering emails. Because people are gonna just keep emailing you because they're like, oh, they always answer so quick. I know I can email them and they'll get to me, you know, in a half hour or something like that.

Luke:

Well, and then your whole life is just spent constantly trying to get to inbox 0, and you never actually do the important thing.

Cameron:

Yeah. I guess how would how how could we translate that over in our work?

Luke:

I think it's like, I mean, we could do that with, like, any kind of goal. Like, anything that we feel like is, that we feel like could be like a metric for us Mhmm. Of like,

Cameron:

I mean, is it essentially a like a is it like essentially the creation of a boundary?

Luke:

Mhmm. I

Cameron:

mean, and that's what maybe sounds like a little bit to me.

Luke:

Yeah. You just kind of say like I'm like

Cameron:

So I, like yeah, I, like on Sunday night, which is Sunday afternoon, like when church is over on Sundays, I'm I'm pretty much like Done? Done. Yeah. You know? And, so I, and not a whole lot of people, well I guess some people understand that, some people don't, is that well, oh, isn't a pastor, on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Luke:

Kind of, but

Cameron:

The long and short of it is, like, yes and no. You know, like the funeral director is on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Right. You know? Like I have days off.

Cameron:

Yeah. And I have Sabbath and I have times where I am, very much not available. Yeah. Yeah. And there are exceptions to that for legitimate, urgent, and important things.

Cameron:

If something's just urgent but not important Right. It's like I'm not available.

Luke:

We can talk about what we're out of stock in the church tomorrow.

Cameron:

Right. Right. Where if something's important but not urgent, okay, this is very important, but since it's not urgent, can we talk about it tomorrow? Right. And I, there was a, you know, a situation this past week where I just simply simply said, you know, I can't it's not something that I can do right now Right.

Cameron:

To spend time with my family tonight. Yeah. So, and sometimes people understand that and sometimes people don't, but I think what I've learned over the last 20 years of failing at it in a lot of ways is, again, that like the church in its urgency Mhmm. Sometimes is not my master.

Luke:

Yeah. Well, it's that kind of, goes back to that, like, that illustration that probably has been done to death by now. Jar in the rocks and the sand.

Cameron:

Yeah.

Luke:

Right? If you put try and put all the sand in first and then put the rocks in and the pebbles, like, you won't be able to fit the big rocks in. Mhmm. If you put the big rocks in and then the smaller rocks, and then the sand last, it'll all kinda fit in the jar. Kind of that idea of like, if you put the big important things in first, Everything else tends to find a way to fit in around them.

Cameron:

Mhmm. Mhmm.

Luke:

And it is a bit of a, like I had to like, I, I finished kind of a well, I finished a big milestone on a project recently. Mhmm. It was Yep. Really exciting. Maybe we'll talk about it in a future episode.

Cameron:

We'll definitely need to. Yep.

Luke:

But, like, I was just like, I gotta get this done. Like, I it's been on my, like, Cameron laughs because it has been on my I've

Cameron:

been pushing you as you work out for years

Luke:

Yes.

Cameron:

Literally. Literally years at this point. Well, you have been working on it for years. It's not

Luke:

like you have. Yeah. Right. It's not like I haven't touched it, but, like, I had gotten down to, like, the last, like, like, literally 98% Yeah. For the smile marker.

Luke:

And I was like I was like I just gotta, like, I just gotta work on it. And, like, something else is not gonna get done this week. Yeah. But I'm gonna work on it and get it done. Mhmm.

Luke:

Because and man, I feel so much better. Having, like I was like, ah, like, I I can do the thing. I Yeah. I can. But and you know what?

Luke:

The thing is is that, like, you have to overcome that, like, fear that well, if I say no to the smaller thing, some big boogie monster is gonna come after me. Yeah. And, well, you didn't come after me. So

Cameron:

No. Mm-mm. No. He didn't. Mhmm.

Cameron:

So Good. It's good stuff.

Luke:

Yeah.

Cameron:

Alright. Well, we hope that y'all can maybe resonate with this kind of discussion Yep. And maybe understand even in your own applications, that you don't need to

Luke:

Don't need to get everything done.

Cameron:

Just Or, or, or just that, like not everything that demands your attention is your master. Yeah. And learning the dynamic of the urgent and the important, I think is is important. So, anyway, I hope this encouraged you or gave you something to think about. You know, if you are a member of conduit or you're in the Jamestown or Straka County, New York, Warren County, Pennsylvania, Cattaraugus County, New York.

Cameron:

The region. The region that we, you know, that we pastor from at Conduit. Love to see you in church this weekend. Mhmm. Of course, there's

Luke:

9 o'clock and 11 o'clock.

Cameron:

9 o'clock. That's right. I was gonna say 10 o'clock, but, 9 o'clock and, 11 o'clock. And, of course, we have some midweek opportunities as well, a Wednesday evening bible study that happens every Wednesday. 6 o'clock.

Cameron:

6 o'clock. Studying through Ephesians right now. So, anyway, thanks for listening and watching. As always, you can text in your questions or topics you'd like to see us cover, 716-201-0507, or drop them in the comments. If you have opportunity to share this episode or the podcast with someone or to like it, wherever you're listening, subscribe to it, rate it, that would be great.

Cameron:

It's a great help for us. We're always encouraged when we see. I'm always encouraged when I see people sharing the screenshot of, like, the episode of the podcast page. So Yeah. Appreciate you all, and, we'll catch you on the next one.

Episode Video

Creators and Guests

Cameron Lienhart
Host
Cameron Lienhart
Senior pastor of Conduit Ministries in Jamestown NY.
Luke Miller
Host
Luke Miller
Associate Pastor at Conduit Ministries.