Politics & Pulpits: What should pastors preach on?
Welcome to the uncut honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Cameron and I are sitting down on this Gloomy. Gloomy. It is now gloomy Monday afternoon, and we decided to hit record. Not a 100% sure what we're gonna talk about.
Luke:We have some ideas. But we do. Cam says he's got a question. So
Cameron:Well, my question was kind of around one of our ideas, which was, so we've preached quite a few different types of sermons in the last couple of weeks.
Luke:We have. Couple of weeks ago on the podcast, we were talking about the series we were finishing up. We just finished the asking for a friend where we kinda sourced some questions, did some topical sermons on it. And then yesterday, you started, a political sermon series. Well, I don't know if that's the correct way to say it.
Luke:It's a sermon series on the integration or intersection of faith and politics. It'd be the right way of saying that.
Cameron:Right. So. Not intentionally planned for the day after there was an assassination attempt. No. Because former president Trump.
Luke:Right. We we made that we planned that sermon series back in October last
Cameron:year. Correct. So Yeah. So it just happened so happened to be Yeah. On the the day after there was an attempted assassination.
Luke:Right. We did plan it in the middle of election season, though.
Cameron:We did. Yes. We felt like potential. Yes. We felt like, as has been the case in years previous, that around this time of year in an election cycle Yeah.
Cameron:A few months before, an election, at least in the major election, not midterms, but the major election, the presidential election, that people are there are a number of things. One, they're just, like, weary Yeah. Of the consistent polarization. The words I used yesterday, polarization, demonization Mhmm. And that they there's so there's a weariness, but there's also, like, a felt anxiety
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:In most people's hearts and minds about the rhetoric that just, like, continues continues to go and how toxic it is Yeah. On both sides, every side of the spectrum. I see most I don't watch mainstream media. I don't I don't watch I don't have I don't sit down and watch the news every night. I read our local paper.
Cameron:So I, like, I don't I I I peruse once in the morning Mhmm. Google News Feed on my phone. But I like, I'm not, like, sitting it down and watching CNN all day or sitting down and watching Fox News all day.
Luke:I'm same way. I get I get one email a day that has the top headlines Mhmm. And a brief, mostly, like, uncharged description of the headline news article of the primary information Mhmm. And a link to a news article about that. Yeah.
Luke:90% of the time, I never click on that news article. I just read the headlines.
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:And then I go on on about my day.
Cameron:Right. So a lot of what people see, is how people are responding to what's happening on things like Facebook and Instagram and Right. Twitter and
Luke:all those You mean
Cameron:x, Cameron? X. Yes. And, man, I mean, if you want to if you wanna see just the armpit of humanity, Go watch a political politically charged back and forth on social media. It is just so bad.
Cameron:Yeah. So, so, so bad. So, anyway, to have a series like this, I wanted to try and encourage our church exhort our church, and in some cases, admonish the church
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:To, engage in a different type of narrative Yeah. And a different type of interaction with this political and election season in life. So that was really the point of the series. And to do so far enough ahead of the election itself
Luke:Mhmm. So
Cameron:that you feel like if you choose to vote, you feel like you're going into that decision, not super charged up emotionally by what you hear and see around you.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:But with, like, a fairly level, God honoring perspective. Yep. So that's why we're doing it now. Feel like it it it the the world begs for it. Church begs for it.
Cameron:And, you know, there's never I I'm never really sure, well, I'm never really sure how many sermons any sermon is going to, like, land in people's lives. I've had sermons where I thought, well, this is this is pretty good.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And then, like, seemingly flop or go over Yeah. Or, like, whatever. Then I've had sermons where, like, I'm like, ah, I just not feel good about this content. Don't know about it. Yeah.
Luke:And have
Cameron:a person come up to me and say that that was the best sermon that they've ever heard on a topic or they feel really moved or challenged or whatever. I don't know. Yep. So, yeah, I, the the church world, just like any other portion of the world, seems to hold pretty tightly to their political beliefs. Mhmm.
Cameron:Like I said yesterday in the sermon, I don't know a single person who thinks that their faith and their political, positions are in conflict with one another. Yeah. No. I don't I I, like, I don't know a single Christian who would say, yeah. I know that's not what Jesus would do, but that's what I that's just what I believe.
Luke:Right. No one, people don't typically walk around thinking that they are a bag of conflictions.
Cameron:Right. No, they don't. We all think we're.
Luke:Very cohesive.
Cameron:Yes.
Luke:I've got this all figured out. I'm very consistent.
Cameron:We're consistent. Yeah.
Luke:That's what we think.
Cameron:Generally what people think. Yeah. And so to I think that's part of the problem because it's really it becomes it becomes very easy when we conflate our political positions with truth Yep. Ultimate truth. Like truth is rooted in God type of truth Mhmm.
Cameron:Then anyone that doesn't hold that position is now against God, and therefore evil. Mhmm. And it becomes very evil or very easy to vilify them, not just on a political spectrum, but to, like, break unity, Christian unity with them or fellowship with them.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Because you are sinning. Right. If you do not hold this position because it's obviously the most faithful Christian position that you can hold.
Luke:Yeah. So to, like, put this to put even, like, a finer point of it, like, we have the core beliefs. Christ is Lord. God is Trinity. Mhmm.
Luke:We're His church. Mhmm. We're to spread the gospel. Mhmm. And like the Bible is his word.
Luke:And then slowly along inside that truth becomes adjacent these other truths or believed truths of my can this candidate is right, this policy is correct. Mhmm. And suddenly, there seems to be very little distinction. They seem to be almost either synonymous or, you were using the word enmeshed, but not necessarily related to beliefs, related to our own merging with our beliefs, which is its own topic. But these beliefs become so synonymous that when someone says, well, your candidate is not the best candidate.
Luke:It feels like they're attacking
Cameron:the Trinity. You are not the best person, right?
Luke:Yeah. Or you're not the best person. You become enmeshed with your beliefs.
Cameron:Yeah. Or your candidate. Yeah. Or you're so you're so incredibly codependent upon their success. Yes.
Cameron:For your own value. Right. Yeah. I, you know, I'm I'm one of the things that I said yesterday was that, that I wouldn't be preaching my own political ideology, and I'm I won't do that. And that there that no one should walk away from that series feeling like, oh, Conduit obviously holds this political position.
Cameron:Right. You know? But I am kind of wrestling with the question of whether or not there are political even as I'm stating the question, are there current hot button political issues that we can and do and should have very strong beliefs in and that we can, in, like, kinda like 1 unified voice Say something. As the church say, this is what God's word says about this. Yeah.
Cameron:And does it then cease to be a political belief and it's really just a theological one? It's not like a we're not making a political statement. It maybe is finding its context in the political Right. In the political world, but this is not political. This is theological.
Luke:I think that's the way it used to feel at some point, But things have kind of gotten so messy that it's hard to feel that way, at least when it comes to candidates and things like that. Like, I remember being a kid and it being like, oh, well, this is the Christian candidate Yeah. Quote unquote.
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:You know? Now whether or not they actually ever were was is, you know, for the historians to debate. Whereas, like, now, like, one, Christianity's taken a backseat. It's no longer like someone can be the quote unquote Christian approved candidate and be very a religious. Mhmm.
Luke:And it seems to not have made much of a difference. Mhmm. But that's an interesting question. Mhmm. I'm trying to think of one that's like because it's not only is it a I can think of topics that we can take a theological stance on, that it's a little bit more unclear to me if whether or not that theological stance denotes a political action on.
Luke:So like, for example, we've talked on this podcast a lot about our position and beliefs about same sex relationships, homosexuality, alternative, all that stuff. We've talked pretty extensive. We have a number of episodes about it. Okay. So we've got a very clear like, this is what the Bible teaches about sexuality, about marriage.
Luke:Does that does that mean then necessarily, though, does our theology include a mandate for us to attempt to legislate Yeah. Through our votes, through our advocacy, who we put into office and who we say, you know, who we call in and say, support this bill, do this, to try and legislate sexuality. Yeah.
Cameron:Yep. I don't feel very conflicted about that one personally. I don't think it's something that we, I think it's fine to work with the legislative process if that's how you wanna engage with the in the political realm. But I don't feel personally like it's the responsibility of the church to legislate someone's to try and legislate someone out of their Sin? Sin.
Cameron:Right. You know?
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way about that particular issue as well.
Cameron:So but but but there but the argument is made right in the other direction Yes. By my lots of people Mhmm. You know, that we have the right to or we have the obligation to Mhmm. Since marriage is of God. Right.
Cameron:We have the obligation to work within government to protect it. Yeah. I'm not so sure, but it's very complex.
Luke:Well, the
Cameron:And I don't begrudge anyone that thinks differently. It's just it's way more complex than.
Luke:Yeah. Well, to take that position, we don't have to go down that and deconstruct why we don't think that too much. But that require that would require for me to hold a position like that. I would have to call any marriage that did not take place in a church by a religious by a Christian officiant, like a less than marriage.
Cameron:Yeah. Or just a heterosexual marriage that was abusive or toxic or not honoring God.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Like,
Luke:it, you know, it Right. It would, like, it would become like, we'd have to say, well, okay, All marriages in the world belong to Christianity.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:And not have any understanding of it being established in the garden, in creation as a blessing that God has given the whole world, regardless of whether or not they take the grace and his design for it.
Cameron:Yeah. But anyways. I think that if I had to probably if I had to be make a make a case for one political position, I think I would probably make it, around the right to life. Yeah. I think as a pro life decision
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Or a pro life position.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And, certainly the, you know, the most obvious pro life pro life context is, around abortion and the ending of births preterm, or the ending of human life preterm. But I I think and there's plenty to say on that. I'm not I'm not minimizing that. Yeah. But but I think it's only part of it.
Cameron:Mhmm. I think that there are other there are other aspects of being pro life and the right to life that Christians do not think carefully enough about.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So like, the death penalty.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And, just really any any political position that seeks to end the life or not protect the life.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I think that we I think if I had to take a take a political position and say, I don't think this is political. I think this is actually theological.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And because I think it's theological, I will fight for its, you know, prominence in the discussion or whatever. Yeah. I think that's what it would be for me.
Luke:Yeah. That was the only one that I could kind of think of as well. Yeah. Then I definitely like, I definitely think that the criticism of, like, Christians being very concerned about the legislation of humans who are yet to be born, the unborn, but then the, maybe lack of concern or even the sometimes confusingly dislike for programs and things that would care for or support children who would be born in risky or difficult or troubled families.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Yes. Because it's not a traditionally financially or got politically conservative position to love those programs. Or, you know, you know, are we putting as much money into, making it better for people to have babies and have children Mhmm. So that there's less even of a risk and a desire for people to need to have abortions or want to have abortions.
Cameron:To have abortions. Yeah. Right.
Luke:So,
Cameron:yeah. Yeah. Well, I just that the whole debate for me really came, like, specifically, like, as it as it widens out into the whole conversation of life, like, being pro life, what what does being pro life mean?
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And, had a, I went to a Christian college and had a philosophy professor I took a number of different courses with, and he was a Christian, is a Christian. And so we would have you know, I think it was in a class on ethics.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:It was. It was one of my ethics classes, and he had us read a report or a paper by a guy, a Catholic cardinal Mhmm. Cardinal Richelieu.
Luke:I'm gonna nod like I know who that person is.
Cameron:I don't. It's like r I c h a l a u. Mhmm. And the name of the paper was Towards a Consistent Ethic of Life. And the whole premise was you know, the Catholic position, of the sacredness of life usually is just extended to, what people think.
Cameron:It usually just the unborn and abortion, but it extends to these other areas as well. You know, particularly making the case of why the same argument exists for those who are, like, gonna be put to death Yep. Or under the death penalty. And for me, it was pretty paradigm shifting for me, and feel like, it's not something that I can it's not something that I can support. I don't I don't support the death penalty.
Cameron:Mhmm. And and I feel I feel like it's the most consistent way that I can say human life matters. We did not create it.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And so we do not get to determine when to end it. Yep. And And I'm going to try to hold that position consistently. You know, there it becomes a really easy the the question really becomes, well, like, obviously, you see in scripture God ordering the killing of people Yeah. The unrighteous
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Or even those who have broken a law or sinned. Right. And so they say, well, like obviously the Bible has capital punishment. Yep. I don't disagree with that.
Cameron:I think, though, in those situations, what it's important the the the question that's important to me to ask is not whether or not does the Bible contain instances of capital punishment or even God's endorsement of capital punishment. Mhmm. But the real question is not is capital punishment in the Bible, but is it something that human beings have the capacity to do justly.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Is it about justice? Yep. Or is it about revenge? Mhmm. Is it about justice or is it about punishment?
Cameron:Yep. And I think that there's a substantial difference between God's ordering of capital punishment as the creator of life and my assessment of whether or not this person Mhmm. Deserves to live any longer Yeah. Because of their crimes or because of where they currently exist, like in the womb of another person.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And I don't think that humans have the capacity to justly make those determinations in a way that we could walk with confidence to say this is the correct decision. Right. Because
Luke:this is it's it's it ties into your argument, particularly for, you know, again, talking about the death penalty. But I I I think what you're saying is even bigger than this. But, you know, how many people, like, there have been people who have been exonerated from death row.
Cameron:Sure.
Luke:Yep. What percentage of error is acceptable when
Cameron:it comes to death row? That's what I'm saying. It's like, can we do it justly?
Luke:Right. We can't. Well, also, if anyone's interested, I actually I need I probably need to do, some reading to see if the situation has changed, but, the lethal injection is a very terrible way to die. It was kind of coming to light in the last handful of years because some states have not been able to get a hold of the paralysis drug
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:That makes you paralyzed when you are injected with the other things that actually kill you. And it's been terrifying to people because some people have been dying without the paralysis drug that keeps your body from showing how much pain you're experiencing. And also doctors don't, like trained doctors don't administer the anesthesia. Mhmm. It's done by untrained people because doctors do no harm.
Luke:Right. And so anesthesia is not always properly applied in those. And so, like, even just the understanding that, like, we have yet to devise a unpainful or humane or kind
Cameron:You've seen it so much so that, like, some you've seen news articles about people on prisoners on death row requesting the firing squad.
Luke:Yeah. Probably be a little bit better.
Cameron:Right. So we can't do it justly. No. In my mind. Right.
Cameron:And that's even that's a deeper thing than saying we can't do it well. We know how to kill people. Sure. We know how to kill people. It'll happen.
Cameron:Right. But, yeah. So, I recognize, though, that even my positions have some inconsistencies in them. I do recognize that, you know, if someone broke into my home in the middle of the night trying to do harm to my wife or my kids, would I protect them even to the death? Of course.
Cameron:Right. Of course I would.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:As would any man worth his salt. Mhmm. You know? So but but I think that there's a difference between I think I do think that there is a difference. I don't really know what the difference is.
Cameron:Maybe we should talk about it. I don't know. It's hard for me to define. I feel like there's a difference between the right to life and having an anti abortion, anti capital punishment position and not being a pacifist. I don't consider myself a pacifist.
Luke:Right. Right.
Cameron:But sometimes those things kinda get lumped. Yeah. Into one another. Yep. I don't really know how to make sense out of that inside myself.
Cameron:Mhmm. But I don't I don't feel at least not I'm not I'm not a practical pacifist.
Luke:Sure.
Cameron:Because in those situations of practicality, I would not just passively sit by and let someone harm my family.
Luke:Right. Here's here's the thing is, you know, we live in an imperfect world. There are, like, wow. We're there's lots of situations out there in the world that, if we try to, like, say that, oh, it's just simply black and white. So some that I I was I talked friend who this was his ethnic background, his cultural background, and there was a big conversion of people, a people group who practice polygamy.
Luke:So a bunch of people who were practicing polygamists got saved by Jesus. And
Cameron:What we do with our families?
Luke:What do we do? What do we do? What do we do? Do do we divorce, which Jesus says is not good, and then just so I gotta pick 1. 1?
Luke:And then What about the kids? What about the kids Yeah. And the support and the and the and the and the and the and so which evil are we gonna choose? Which which one's good, bad, what, like, whatever. Like, in this very That
Cameron:would make a great scenario for a Christian ethics class to have a student write on.
Luke:Oh, yeah. Like, because that you know? But here but here we are. Let's say that, like, okay. Anti abortion, anti death penalty, someone is coming with intent to do harm to your family.
Luke:If they successfully do harm to your family, either severely or death, that is evil. That is wrong. That is bad. You have the ability to at least attempt to successfully defend your family from that evil, and it results in their death, which is not great. We would prefer they live.
Luke:Yep. You've got 2 things that are not good, but we're gonna have to choose one of them.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And I don't think it's inconsistent to say that you would prefer I I think the one where the person who is intending to chose to enact harm and danger, the consequence of that is what they reap, what they sowed in that moment. Yes.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:I think that is a lesser evil than the other.
Cameron:Right. I do too.
Luke:And that's that's why I would choose it because there is no choice in that moment. Evil is about to happen. Yeah. What do I do with that evil?
Cameron:Yep.
Luke:Right. The problem with the death penalty is is that for the most part, that evil is no longer a threat
Cameron:because it's
Luke:it's not gonna they're not causing harm Yeah. To general public, too. And we can talk about the ship of Theseus and all that, too. Like, are we even actually exacting punishment on the person who committed the crime if it's x amount of years really removed and all of that philosophical question. But, I think it's different.
Cameron:I do too. I think there's something in the position that upholds protection of the innocent.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Now they're not in like, a death penalty case, you're not necessarily talking about the protection of the innocent. No. Right? They're not innocent.
Luke:We're talking of, supposedly, we're talking about justice.
Cameron:Right. Right. Which so the projection of the innocent, like, the the unborn child in the womb of its mother or my kids or my wife, you know, in a situation like that. So I think there is that added dynamic to it as well that there is a that there is a righteous component of the protection of those who cannot, at least in some cases, protect themselves.
Luke:Yep. Yeah.
Cameron:So yeah. But even even in that, you know, like, I I don't anticipate. I don't in well, I told people that I wouldn't be I wouldn't be preaching my own personal political ideology, and so I won't be preaching that. Even though you may be you may might go to my church and you're watching this now and you're Right. Saying, well But I I don't think anyone It would be foolish, I think, for anyone to think that I don't have my own personal political perspectives.
Cameron:Correct. But, it's not my job or calling or responsibility to preach my perspectives. Mhmm. It's my job to preach the word. Mhmm.
Cameron:And what will some of those positions are in your are in the word. Yeah. I I I get it. But as we were talking even before the cameras were rolling, it's a little bit more nuanced than just like, this is what the Bible says on this. So there.
Cameron:Right. Right. It's it's a it's a more nuanced conversation, position, discussion then Yeah. Can really not even that we can easily have in the time frame. It's not even about the time frame.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:As much as it is about the environment of interaction and dialogue. Yeah. I'm I'm just talking to them. Right. On Wednesday nights, when we have our bible study, we're able to sit with people and and deal with some extraordinarily nuanced topics.
Cameron:Yeah. Human sexuality, a protestant evangelical, whatever you wanna do, call it, like, response to certain Catholic doctrines. Yeah. Whatever. We can sit down and have kind of a face to face, you know, dialogue conversation slash teaching slash study with these people and and really dive into some fairly nuanced topics and sometimes come out being like, yeah.
Cameron:I think this is really clear why we don't believe in the rapture.
Luke:Sure. Yeah. Right?
Cameron:And then other times, come out being like a it's not that simple. Like a, why do Catholics pray? Why do Catholics ask the saints to pray for them? Yes. Which I don't think is something that I think we said it last week.
Cameron:We did. But I don't think that they got it.
Luke:Really?
Cameron:I think I I think some of them still think that prayers are offered to the saints.
Luke:Like, saints so and so, please do this for me.
Cameron:Yes.
Luke:Yeah. Rather than what they
Cameron:Our father in heaven. Right. You know? So they're not praying to God. I'm praying to Saint Michael.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:No. No. No. No. No.
Cameron:You're not praying to Saint Michael. Right. You're asking Saint Michael to pray for you.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Like I would be asking you to pray for me.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I I think that some of them were confused on that.
Luke:Yeah. That's fair.
Cameron:Yeah. So
Luke:They may have been. If you're listening and you were like, oh, yeah. We were confused on that. Let us know.
Cameron:Because we just clarified it for you.
Luke:Oh, yeah.
Cameron:But, anyway, yeah, I enjoyed the Wednesday night conversations
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:There, with that series. Wasn't crazy about the Sunday morning series, but, trust that God uses those things that I'm even that I'm not really crazy about Yeah. To speak truth into people's hearts and lives. It certainly was an interesting one. It was a it was an interesting series.
Cameron:Yeah. Lots of conversation, lots of comments, lots of lots of, feedback Mhmm. On it.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So,
Luke:yeah. I was surprised I didn't get more comments on the one I did about the problem of evil.
Cameron:Where was there a part of it that you expected to get more, like, feedback or comments or questions or push back on?
Luke:Oh, I guess that's a good question. I don't really know. I don't know that where I would have gotten more I don't know where I would have gotten more. I think I was expecting some people to want to come up and make it simpler. Mhmm.
Luke:To say, like, well, you should have just said, you
Cameron:know,
Luke:this or something like that. Because I tried to kind of avoid some of the simplistic simplistic answers or the simplistic theodysies. Mhmm. So I didn't I didn't wanna portray a certain theodysy as more strong than I think it actually is. Mhmm.
Luke:Because I I I'm of the persuasion that the Bible doesn't really offer a theodicy Yeah. In the most strictest of senses.
Cameron:Not really. No.
Luke:And so I was pretty soft in my, like, delivery of the 2 theodysseys I offered. Mhmm. Because because I think the Bible's pretty soft on answering that question.
Cameron:On why? Yeah. Yeah.
Luke:So specifically answering that question why. So I but I find that a lot of people still, particularly people who are interested and familiar of the topic, are much more like just like, well, this is the answer. Mhmm. And I'm kind of you know? So I always think I was expecting a little bit of that.
Cameron:Mhmm. So Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's kind of our reflection.
Cameron:Yeah. A little bit on, I guess, both that series, the asking for a friend series, but also some of the stuff that we began to talk about. We didn't really even begin to talk about that yesterday, but No. It's in the same realm.
Luke:Yeah. Did you wanna talk any more about, like, why you weren't a super fan of the Sunday mornings? I just
Cameron:I Yeah. I I feel it feels to me to be, like, more emotional than it does, like one particular thing that I can put my finger on. Mhmm. I don't, I felt like in some ways obviously, there were questions that were posed that were asked, and so it wasn't like we were manufacturing topics or questions or anything like that. They were important enough to some people
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:To ask them, but in some ways, I felt like we were it felt just really disjointed Mhmm. Week to week.
Luke:Yeah. Definitely.
Cameron:And it felt a little bit manufactured in terms of like its cohesiveness or its applicability to the body. Mhmm. And so I I just kinda felt like, it may just be how I like my my preference in preaching is to be be a little bit more expository than topical, which is interesting because like for the next 6 months, we're pretty much all
Luke:Topical.
Cameron:Pretty much. Not entirely, but
Luke:Not entirely, but we we got after this forgiveness after the talking point series?
Cameron:Yes. Yeah? Uh-huh.
Luke:Which you'll hit out of the park.
Cameron:Yeah. I got a lot on that. Yeah. And the scripture has a lot
Luke:It does.
Cameron:On that. Mhmm.
Luke:Political one is a little bit more thematic.
Cameron:Yes.
Luke:Deals with, like, a broader theological application rather than 1 or 2 verses.
Cameron:Correct. With, I think, the exception of this week well, I don't even wanna say it's an exception, but this coming weekend
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Where my point really is to say, okay, if we are citizens of heaven Yep. And, like, the the way in which both the gospels and Paul talks about that kingdom. It's it's the kingdom of Jesus. Right? You put the gospels and like the kingdom is here.
Cameron:The kingdom is nearer now. Repent and believe. Mhmm. And then particularly in the gospel of Matthew, his like the recording of Jesus saying the kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like, the kingdom of heaven is like. So we are citizens of that kingdom
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And Jesus rules that kingdom.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:And we are our identity is rooted in that, not in our Americanism.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:So if we are citizens of a different kingdom and Jesus rules that kingdom and Jesus talked about what that kingdom is like Yep. It's important for us, I think, to understand what was important to Jesus in that kingdom so that we can make it important in our lives.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:And then let that what's important to Jesus and what's important to his kingdom. Mhmm. Let those things guide our political positions, perspectives, persuasions Yeah. And purpose.
Luke:Yeah. Mhmm.
Cameron:So I think the problem this week is gonna be having so many examples in scripture of Jesus talking about the kingdom of heaven is like Mhmm. That it's gonna be difficult to choose
Luke:Which ones?
Cameron:Which ones Yeah. Without seemingly saying, well, this one's not as important because we're not gonna talk as much about it, but this one's more important, which is not the case. But we're just like
Luke:it is I think as I've been thinking about, like, the series, which, like I think, like, anytime this question comes up, I find the most difficult part to get people to grasp is that the Bible has no conception, representative government. And you read it in 1st service when you read out of 2nd Timothy. I'm like, yeah. That is written about a monarchy. Mhmm.
Luke:About, like, a, emperor who, can be crazy, because they were all genetically inbred and were had mental illnesses, and he made his horse a general and then burnt down part of Rome and blamed it on the Christians. Like, Nero was nuts. Like and so Paul's saying, you know, pray for Nero. Yeah. Because because brother needs the prayer.
Luke:Right. And just pray that we would live peaceably. Like, you can hear that.
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:It because there's not much control given to Christians in their context when those when the when the Bible is written. Right. Except for the control in which God has over the rulers of this world. And it's we live in a very different Right. Where we're encouraged to vote, to participate, make our voice known, and affect some sort of control or effect on the outcome of our self rule government, however we want to talk about it.
Luke:And that is such a big jump. Are you gonna talk about that at all in the in your sermons or like
Cameron:Yes. I will talk about that some. Yeah. Yeah. When we like, it'll either be in number 3 or number 4, about how what is the best way or what are not the even the best way.
Cameron:What are some of the options for Christians to faithfully engage in the current political, in the current political landscape. Yeah. Yeah. So
Luke:Do I look forward to it?
Cameron:Yeah. So I it wasn't really clear to me how I was gonna lay out the series until this past week. Yeah. And then it all kind of like, okay. Yeah.
Cameron:That's the that's the route to go, or that's a route to go. Yeah. It's not the right one, but Yeah. Or v one. V one.
Cameron:It's a one. It's a one. Yes.
Luke:Yeah. A one steak sauce.
Cameron:Which you should never, ever, ever put a sauce on steak, by the way. We'll do a whole episode about that. If you're putting steak sauce on your steak, we need to have a
Luke:talk. Yeah. It wasn't seasoned correctly.
Cameron:Or cooked well.
Luke:Right. Yeah. Yeah. Don't don't order a well done steak and then put sauce on it.
Cameron:Brad Swanson, we're talking to you.
Luke:Yeah, Brad. Alright. Well, that's probably enough for 1
Cameron:It is. Episode. Yes. Thanks for listening as always. You can send in your questions, comments, whatever to our text line, 716-201-0507, Or did I get that right?
Luke:Yeah. You got it.
Cameron:Okay. Or comment here on the if you're watching on YouTube, comment here. If you're listening, send this episode to someone. Yeah. Share it.
Cameron:Like it. Subscribe. Write
Luke:a review.
Cameron:Write a review.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:It's helpful for us.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:It'd be awesome to hit 200 subscribers by the end of the year. Yeah. Maybe, like, 70 ish more. Yep. Be great.
Cameron:So share it with some people. Encourage them to, subscribe. That'd be great. And until next time. Bye.
Cameron:Bye.
