Creating a Healthy Sex Life Inside Your Marriage
If you can't be naked emotionally, what makes you think you can be naked physically and ultimately naked emotionally at the same time?
Cameron:Yeah. Well, that's actually what happens is that we think we can be naked physically without being naked emotionally. So we get naked physically, but we never get naked emotionally. And so we never actually experience intimacy. Right.
Cameron:To increase quality of sex Mhmm. You must increase emotional intimacy.
Luke:Welcome to The Uncut Podcast. I'm pastor Luke.
Cameron:I'm pastor Cameron. And this is The
Luke:Uncut Podcast where we have honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. So we've kind of talked about, we kind of really dug in and have talked about, like, sex, it's, like, meaning, it's biblical foundation, where it comes from. Like, we even gave a kind of a broad biblical defense for how, for sex inside of marriage and not outside of it. But we haven't gotten much into kind of, like, untangling sex and its complications and the role of emotions and past experiences and how that all plays out inside of marriage and then what healthy sex looks like inside of it. So that's kind of where I think we are gonna go in this next little segment or episode here.
Luke:So where do you kinda wanna lead us into that? Do you have a sense?
Cameron:Well, I we touched on it a little bit at on the last episode about in particular the way, the way in which past sexual experiences may be affecting current
Luke:Mhmm. Yeah.
Cameron:Sexual life.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:So some of that we I I feel like we I don't know. You can you can nuance things to death, and you can't possibly hit every scenario or situation or anything like that. But, you know, it is we it would be it's it's difficult to to talk about sex and not talk about the ways in which it has we we bring baggage from baggage is I don't like that word. But Well, yeah. It's baggage.
Cameron:You know, we bring baggage from our sexual experiences into our marriages. Yep. Yep. Not only just baggage that is of our own doing. Right.
Cameron:But things that have been done to us. Yep. Things that have been said to us. Mhmm. Experiences that we have had that we've either not been willful participants in or we've been semi willful participants in.
Cameron:Yep. And how all of that may affect Mhmm. A healthy Yes. Sex life in your marriage.
Luke:And here's here's even a a big thing is that your so, like, maybe another way of saying it with less judgmental words, like, not saying, like, your your baggage impacts your sex life and marriage, but saying your story impacts your sex life.
Cameron:K. Say a little bit more about that.
Luke:So, like, one of the things so, like, I've done a lot of work reading, study, with dealing with sexual addiction, things like that. So, like, there's a book called, oh, no. I'm gonna send Unwanted, dealing with unwanted sexual behavior by
Cameron:Jay Springer. Yeah.
Luke:So I went through his, like, training course, to kinda become, like, a certified, unwanted coach so I can talk with people through The unwanted coach. Yes. I know. Yeah. Yeah.
Cameron:The title of the book is unwanted.
Luke:I it's
Cameron:not He's not an unwanted coach.
Luke:Right. Right. That's not what I'm saying. But one of the things that's really I think one of the reasons his book, his study, his research, and his methodology and everything stands out is is he's trying to, and he has a tool that he's developed through the research that they've been doing where they have people who are dealing with unwanted sexual behavior. They list out, not necessarily, they do they do inventory people, like, what kind of pornography are they looking at?
Luke:What kind of sexual behavior are they struggling with? Those kind of things. They ask those questions. But then they also ask a very large litany of questions that have to do with their family of origin. Not necessarily including set first sexual experiences, but also including just family dynamics, including how they related to their father, to their mother.
Luke:Was their mother or was their father absent? Was their mother or father overbearing? Things like that. And then they at the end, they give out people who go through this inventory. They give people out a sheet.
Luke:And they say, hey. You indicated this kind of family dynamic or this kind of experience growing up. We think due to just, like, the study we've done and the things we've looked at, that it is likely you struggle with this type of sexual sin or this type of sexual desire because we they find it rooted in their story. Mhmm. And so so things that are connected so our past sexual experiences absolutely do come to play in our current sexual lives.
Luke:But so do our past relationships, abandonment, healthy and sure secure attachments, anxious attachments. The things that we like, the sexual preferences or desires that we have in our sex life can often be traced to unmet or emotional unmet emotional needs Mhmm. Previously in our stories.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:So when I say that, I when I say that, like, what's happening in our sexual life isn't necessarily, like, because of our baggage. I'm saying it's because of our story. That means that in companies companies encompasses everything. Right?
Cameron:Everything from Not just those classically negative things Exactly.
Luke:Which is how baggage is usually. Right. But it can. And it does include. Right.
Luke:You know? So, like, if we were acting out our sexuality in a sinful or unhelpful way at one point in our life, that's included too. But so is everything else. So there's this whole, that's the thing when it comes to the part about sex that I don't think that I know doesn't get talked about enough is you can find 10 gazillion podcasts out there, books, videos about, like, the mechanics of sex. Right?
Luke:Or the, like, tips and tricks of sex. But it's not very often that people discuss the emotional and social components of sex. There's a whole underlying component that is just not talked about. It's kind of talked about when it comes to females, to women. Right?
Luke:That's kind of generally acknowledged in our media and those stories we tell about, oh, well, women get really attached. So, like, if we're watching some sort of, like, stereotypical movie or sitcom and, oh, there's this couple, and they're trying to have friends with benefit benefits. The way that stories typically plays out is what?
Cameron:The woman catches feelings.
Luke:The woman catches feelings.
Cameron:Yeah. The
Luke:man doesn't. He leaves her. She's hurt. And then she falls in love with the person she was supposed to be in love with the whole time anyways. Right?
Luke:That's the story that gets told over and over and over again. But the unfortunate part about that is is that, okay, we acknowledge the emotional social component for women, but then we never talk about it for men. And that goes and so then what you end up having is you end up having women who think that men don't have an emotional component when it comes to sex, and men who also don't think they have emotional component to it. And then that's never addressed inside of the sexual relationship. And it's just well, for men, it's just this physical thing.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And the men perpetuate it because they never develop a curiosity to understand what's undergirding their physical desire. So Yeah.
Cameron:As and I yeah. I would agree with that. And I I guess it wouldn't be my I don't wanna make my experience normative. But what my my experience has been is, like, as life has gone on and I've been married longer and longer and longer and longer, the physical component of sex becomes less important. And the emotional component of sex becomes more important.
Cameron:Yeah. And I don't know if it's a function of my, like, just biological age as a man, or if it's a function of intimacy that's developed progressively over time
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:With one person. Probably a little bit of a mixture of both.
Luke:Maybe.
Cameron:But, certainly, I think that the, like, yeah, the emotional component of sex for men, it gets it gets hidden or, or yeah. I guess it gets hidden or or covered up early in someone's life. Mhmm. But it's manifesting itself over here. So, like, in in the midst of relationship, the emotional component of sex can sometimes be, hidden.
Cameron:Yes. But if it is hidden for too long in the midst of relationship, then it takes form in another environment.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And for most men, maybe it's unfair. For a lot of men, that usually is in its, like, in it's pursuit of what we want emotionally
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Outside of relationship. Yeah. So in pornographic material Right. Or fantasy
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Or whatever because we feel unsafe emotionally in the actual relationship that we're in. Right. And so the part of sex that is for us emotional must be pursued over here Right. Where there's not
Luke:there's There's there's no risk of vulnerability.
Cameron:No risk of getting hurt.
Luke:Right. Right. And it's it's a combination, I think, of, 1, men don't know how to they they I think men are often unaware. They're unaware of what they're actually looking for. Mhmm.
Luke:There's a book that talks about, sexual addiction and things like that, and the title of it is very great. And the beginning concept is is well stated. It's called false intimacy. Mhmm. Right?
Luke:And what we're looking for is intimacy in some way. Right? We're back to that biblical concept we talked about in the past episode of being known in some way. Being wanted, being desired, being known, be being fully accepted as who we are. And but a lot of men don't know that's what they're looking for.
Luke:They say, oh, well, I'm just, I just have a sexual desire, and I just want this. Or I'm addicted to this, or I'm addicted to this type of relationship, or this sexual act, or whatever. And they're unaware of the undercurrent that's underneath of it. So I think there's a one, there's an unawareness because there's lack of curiosity, or there's a level of awareness they have, but there's an unwilling to risk getting that need met in a emotionally vulnerable way. And it feels more comfortable to just say, I want this physical thing
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Rather than saying, I actually need this emotional thing.
Cameron:Mhmm. Mhmm.
Luke:Is that what you were
Cameron:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah.
Cameron:That all, you know, I don't I can't speak really authoritatively on how that same type of dynamic may manifest itself in a woman's experience of sex. Yeah. I don't think it's dissimilar. No. They just search for the emotional connection in a different way.
Cameron:Yes. I I agree. Through different means.
Luke:Through different means. And, like, in probably the I mean, like I said, like, we could die in nuance. So there's absolutely like, those same dynamics can and do happen in women. So women can Mhmm. Experience sexual brokenness, unwanted sexual behavior, or addiction.
Luke:And those same underlying currents remain true there. The other aspect or at least I I think this is kind of trending in a positive direction. I think this is less true than it maybe was in past generations. But, the deprioritization of the physical aspect of it for women, we've emphasized, oh, it's like an emotional thing. But not recognizing or understanding anatomy, how sex functions for a woman, or that they can have and experience sexual desire at the same pace or outpace men and things like that.
Luke:That, like, the stereotype, right, of the man always wants more sex than the woman. Right? That's kind of the at least that's the stereotype that ends up in.
Cameron:It's the typical stereotype.
Luke:Stereotype stereotype. That's not necessarily always true. Mhmm. Right? And so but that's a narrative that doesn't get talked about.
Luke:Right? And so that's the other component of sex that I think for women, at least historically, has been ignored. But neither of
Cameron:us are Yeah.
Luke:Women and so we should Right.
Cameron:But it's a cultural dynamic that we have just perpetuated over time that men always want more sex. Women always want less sex. And so it's not safe Right. For a a man to say, I want less sex.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:It's not safe for a woman to say Right. I want more.
Luke:But it does happen.
Cameron:But it does happen.
Luke:I Yeah. I know a couple where that's the dynamic.
Cameron:Yeah. Right. That's the it's just how it happens. Yeah. Yeah.
Cameron:Okay. So let's maybe talk a little bit more than about developing a healthy sex life in marriage. You know, we've talked a lot about, the overflow of sex, outside of covenant. We've talked about trauma and baggage and story and all the negative Yep. Aspects of it, but we haven't talked a whole lot about the real positive aspects of sex within marriage, which is really what I would love.
Cameron:You know, that's that's the that's the goal. Yeah. That's the target. Yeah. All other things being all of the things considered the same.
Cameron:Mhmm. Right? We wanna talk about what how do we build into, have, develop healthy sex life in marriage. Yeah. And what are some of the you know, I don't mean to make it super, like, here are the components, do these things, and it will be easy.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Because we can't just shift from being, oh, we're about, like we're not just magically shifting to a tools conversation here.
Cameron:No. Mm-mm. Right. No. It's not.
Cameron:You know, there's not so much yeah. I don't even know that I I mean, maybe there are, like, tools per se that could help.
Luke:Like best practices.
Cameron:Best practices. Yeah. But I think what one of the things that we have already, you know, somewhat touched on is a real an important component in healthy sex life and marriage is the ability or development of emotional intimacy Yeah. Between, man and wife. Or husband and wife.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Because we're back to that dynamic of sex being a thermometer and the thermostat. Mhmm. Right? And intimacy playing that kinda key role.
Cameron:Yeah. So maybe let's explain a little bit what we mean when we say sex is a thermometer and sex is a Right. Thermostat. Yep. So when you talk about a marriage and the relationship of sex within a marriage Mhmm.
Cameron:A thermometer measures the current temperature of something. Right. So you could say, alright. You're having sex this much.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And you're both reporting that sex is fulfilling in all of these ways. Right. Right? So the thermometer is reading high. Good.
Cameron:Good. Positive. Right. You're alive. Correct.
Cameron:The marriage is thriving. Yes. What would the thermostat view be?
Luke:The thermostat would be that, like, alright. We're feeling kind of disconnected. Mhmm. We're feeling maybe, kinda like roommates. Mhmm.
Luke:You know, we're kinda just doing thing to thing.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:The spark is kind of gone. You know, and we're not having sex very much. Or we're not having sex very much. Yeah. And saying, well, let's try and shift this a little bit.
Luke:Like, let's start prioritizing some physical connection, some romantic physical connection, like we maybe did before we had kids or x, y, and z, whatever. And you start setting aside time to, like, regularly engage in sex. And maybe you even try and, like, break out of, like, a usual pattern of sex. And maybe you try and be more flirtatious or fun or creative. Maybe you just try and make out like you were dating again or something like that.
Luke:Mhmm. And as you do that, you find, oh, we're just feeling a little bit more playful and fun, and we don't feel like roommates. The more we've kind of, like even though it feels kinda regimented to think about talking about scheduling sex into our life, but that's the reality for a lot of people. If you don't schedule it into your calendar, doesn't happen. Mhmm.
Luke:And as you do that, you begin to experience a more willingness to engage in emotional intimacy Mhmm. Outside of the bedroom.
Cameron:Yeah. Thermostats are meant to set the temperature in the room. Right. So it sets the temperature in your marriage using sex.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Yeah. So the development of intimacy becomes the both the thermometer and the thermostat
Luke:Right.
Cameron:As to whether or not sex can be can be you would call sex 2 thumbs up, 2 thumbs down, 1 thumb up, 1 thumb down. You know? However you wanna put it. But, the you know, I have listed here. Developing healthy sex life within marriage.
Cameron:What are the habits and practices of that? Yeah. The foundation of it is what we've already said is developing that healthy Mhmm. Bond of intimacy, which begins not just with the consideration of sex. Well, I suppose it could.
Cameron:I suppose you could say that, like, we wanna have better sex, so how do we create better intimacy?
Luke:Right.
Cameron:But it starts back some of those topics that we talked about at the marriage at the at the conference about, like, what are what are some of the key factors that develop intimacy that will help us in developing a better sex life? The first being honesty. Mhmm. Second being vulnerability. Right.
Cameron:The ability to be known. Yep. Be fully known. Yeah. To be, Genesis chapter 3.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:To be naked And and and feel no shame.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Right? Naked emo not naked physically.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Naked
Luke:Emotionally.
Cameron:Emotionally.
Luke:Because if you can't be naked emotionally, what makes you think you can be naked physically? Mhmm. And ultimately, nakedly naked emotionally at the same time.
Cameron:Yeah. Well, that's actually what happens is that we we think we can be naked physically without being naked emotionally. Mhmm. So we get naked physically, but we never get naked emotionally. And so we never actually experience intimacy
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Which diminishes quality. Mhmm. So you to increase quality of sex
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:You must increase emotional intimacy. Right. You must increase your willingness to be fully intimate Mhmm. Emotionally, which means I'm not trying to cover up parts of myself.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:I'm not trying to hide parts of myself.
Luke:You have to show up.
Cameron:You have to show up. Mhmm. You have to show up. And I, you know, in some ways, intimacy happens. It is a long obedience in the same direction.
Cameron:Mhmm. It doesn't I I do think that it is a little it's a little shortsighted to say that intimacy emotional intimacy can happen quickly.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Like, it it we are all broken. We are all carrying our we are all bringing baggage into situations. Yep. We are all learning to trust. Mhmm.
Cameron:And we all in relationship, we break that trust with people. Yep. We give them reasons to believe that we're not safe.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And we have to come back and start over again
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And rebuild that trust.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So the building of intimacy happens progressively over time in the midst of long obedience in same direction. There are things that can be done to ensure that intimacy is being built maybe at a more precipitous rate than, than just normal. Mhmm. But it does also just take time.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Building emotional intimacy, which then builds physical intimacy just takes time.
Luke:What takes consistency? Right? Like, we have to know again, we're back to the nature of covenant. Covenant creating a safe space for emotional intimacy. But then also, covenant is consistency too.
Luke:It's showing up all the time. It's showing up regularly and being committed to doing that.
Cameron:Mhmm. Mhmm. So I talked a little bit about this at the conference. I'm not afraid to talk about it. I think it's a good I think it's a good thing to talk about developing a health healthy sex life within marriage, habits and practices, the scheduling Mhmm.
Cameron:Of sex. Right. Now that doesn't mean if you were to pick up my calendar right now and look through it, you wouldn't be able to see when it's scheduled. Right. But we we the old the old phrase is that we we we how's how's it go?
Cameron:We when we fail to plan, we plan to fail? Yes. Yes. When we fail to plan, we plan to fail. And in a life where people are extraordinarily busy and just getting busier over time.
Cameron:Mhmm. When we fail to plan times of consecrated physical
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Intimacy Mhmm. It becomes very easy for us to to put it on the back burner
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Or for it to not happen. And because it requires a lot of us.
Luke:It does.
Cameron:And so I I think it's I think it's wise. My wife and I have, for pretty much our entire marriage, even right even pretty much right from the get go, had kind of determined that we did not want to fall into a pattern of, working really hard, being really busy, never never be never really engaging in one another's life enough to, like, consecrate the time to set it apart. Right? So we said, okay. Well, let's have let's have 2 specific date nights
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Per
Luke:week.
Cameron:That date night can be a night that we go out. That date night can be a night that we stay in. Mhmm. But, you know, we might put the kids to bed early. We won't eat dinner with them, but we'll eat you know, we'll make dinner together.
Cameron:Mhmm. We'll have a date right there in our own very own home. And then it's almost always understood unless there's some kind of extenuating circumstance or whatever, that date nights include sex. Mhmm. And apart I I think the the what is what would you say the classic argument against scheduling sex is?
Luke:Oh, it's not romantic, Cameron.
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:I think, like, the argument would be that, like, well, that's not very romantic. That's not very spontaneous.
Cameron:Spontaneous is.
Luke:Also, like, maybe a little bit more serious argument against it, I would say, would be to say, well, Cameron, that's kind of a like, an expectation of that. Like, is that really fair that, like, you know, that that's kind of, like, scheduled in like that? Isn't that kind of demanding or unhealthy? We're talking about emotional intimacy here, and this doesn't sound like this could this could create a a a place of entitlement.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. And so we've wrestled with all of those questions, and there's a few things. 1, we always, Jerry and I both always hold the freedom for the other to say, just kinda not feeling it tonight
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Without even really the explanation of why
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:We're not feeling it. Because sometimes we're just, like, really just not feeling it. Yeah. I am tired, or I don't feel good. Yeah.
Cameron:Or I just don't want to.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And, only a few times and really only early in marriage was it like, well, why? What did I do wrong? Right. What's the matter? Are you mad at me?
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:But there there comes in the in the development of intimacy and honesty or vulnerability and honesty, there's just a trust then is then developed that says, no. It's not about it really has nothing to do with you at all or us. It really has to more do with me.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And so there, yeah, there is an kind of an expectation that comes there, but there's also freedom out of love for the other to release the other from the expectation.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:But also, the expectation is also part of the gift.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Because I know that I can't be or shouldn't be at least Mhmm. A complete idiot
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:For 3 days. Mhmm. And then all of a sudden, now it's date night. Right. So I get to have sex.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And my wife and there's no demand on me for having loved my wife, served my wife, sacrificed for my wife, shared my heart with her Right. Been been present
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:At all physically or emotionally for her, poured into her life so that there so that we set the right Right. Environment for sex to be Yep. Enjoyable. Yeah. So scheduling of it the scheduling of it does not yeah.
Cameron:It takes away the spontaneity Yeah. 100%. But the gift that it gives is the it it when you take away spontaneity, you only have intentionality.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And to approach sex intentionally gives you the opportunity to think about what it like, all the dynamics of what it is.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:The intimate portion of the intimacy portion of it and not just the physical portion of it. Now, usually, when say, I can't believe you scheduled sex, that's so like, I would never want sex to not be spontaneous.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Who says you can't have spontaneous sex and have scheduled sex? Right. You can do both, And both happen.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And both are good.
Luke:Right. I think I think one of the things that scheduling sex like that could have a really positive effect on and this is a dynamic that is super common, I think happens a lot in marriages, is the spouse who maybe who, like, has a higher desire or higher, like, frequency for wants sex more often or is just more desires physical intimacy, can get into a spot where they are trying to figure out which buttons to push on the vending machines so that they get sex.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And what that ends up doing is it puts the other spouse in a place where all affection feels like an inauthentic bid for sex.
Cameron:That's where there's a string attached to.
Luke:There's a string attached. Right? A string attached, care, love, and affection. Mhmm. And that destroys intimacy.
Luke:Because, well, you gave me flowers. Well, it's been a week, I guess. Like, you gave me, you know right? Like, it's been x long since we've had intimacy. All of a sudden, my spouse is starting to be nice and da da da da because he wants or they want something from me.
Luke:And that's what they want is sex. But if it's scheduled, right, like, now all of a sudden, both spouses are freed to receive and give and experience, like, other forms of intimacy and affection without sex being the undertone Mhmm. Of it. Understanding that, like, hey. I'm being affectionate, nice, caring, supportive, whatever, not because I am asking for something with a string attached to it.
Luke:So I think that could be a helpful, a helpful way of breaking that dynamic, which happens in a lot of relationships.
Cameron:Yeah. And it it it really is, like, when I, yeah, when I am not present emotionally, but then want to be present physically Mhmm. That is what it feels like for my wife. Yep. It's like, okay.
Cameron:Now I'm just essentially, I I'm using just she's just being used.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Yeah. And we talked about sexual sins outside of marriage. Mhmm. You wanna talk about Yes.
Cameron:Inside? Of marriage. Yeah. Now the same happens in reverse. Right.
Cameron:This is not just, like, lest we just beat down on men for their caveman desire to have sex all the time. Yeah. The same happens in reverse or can happen in reverse if you take a prototypical perspective on it.
Luke:We just stick with the stereotype.
Cameron:Stick stick with the stereotype is that when the opposite is true Mhmm. Right? Like, there's, there's the physicality of sex does not happen
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:But there is a there is a continue, there's a a continued, like, draw at or desire for Mhmm. Emotional intimacy
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Without the parallel experience of physical intimacy. Right. And so I've often heard it said and while it I think it's it's a generality, but I think it's generally true is that women experience or or women pursue, like, physical intimacy with a man Mhmm.
Luke:So
Cameron:that they can experience the emotional intimacy Mhmm. With their spouse. And men step into the emotional intimate intimacy space so that they can experience the physical intimacy space.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Because I it is a I mean, it's like we just talked about. It's kind of is a strings attached model Right. For both. For both of them.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:For both for both. And I think part of that is dangerous because you can tilt over into a self serving model.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:But it's also you tilt the other way and it's just you could call it just like a I am self aware. Mhmm. And I'm also spousal aware.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I know that my wife needs emotional intimacy with me in order to have an enjoyable sexual experience with me. Right. My wife knows that I need to have an enjoyable sexual experience with her Mhmm. In order to have an emotional intimacy experience with her. Right.
Cameron:Right? And so it's just both of us coming to the table understanding that we we both want intimacy with one another.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:We tend to, in general, get to that place from a different path.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:But the intentionality of having sex on a regular basis Mhmm. Allows both of us to experience those things. Like, I, you know, I I have to be intentional. Right. She also has to be intentional.
Cameron:We both have to be intentional. Until now, it becomes a pattern and a rhythm
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Where we're like, this is a life giving Right. Part of our marriage. Like Yeah. It'd be difficult to function long term
Luke:Mhmm. Outside of it. Would you say that the principle underneath the let let's take for a second. Let's just say that for some reason, right, scheduled set physical sexual intimacy is, like, not the thing for the couple, right,
Cameron:for
Luke:some reason. Would you say the core principle underneath that is like, okay. Whether or not you schedule it or not, the core principle is intentionality? 100%. Right.
Cameron:Yeah. Because if the opposite of spontaneity what is the opposite of spontaneity?
Luke:Regimented?
Cameron:Yeah. Or intentional. Right. Intentional. It's planned.
Cameron:Mhmm. Right? You're either you're either spontaneous or you're planned. Right? At at the end of the day, like, it's an intentionality or it's an intentionality towards intimacy.
Cameron:Mhmm. Sometimes that intentionality comes across in, like,
Luke:because you have to be intentional to actually be spontaneous too.
Cameron:Yeah. Even more so.
Luke:Right. That actually takes probably takes more effort because if you if you're just like, oh, it's kinda like saying, oh, we'll just take a spontaneous trip to Africa. Well and and we're never gonna do any we're never gonna get our passports ready. We're never gonna make any plans for packing or flying. You're just never gonna go on that trip.
Cameron:Yeah. Or it's gonna be a disaster.
Luke:Right. Yeah. Or it will be a disaster. An unmitigated disaster. Yeah.
Luke:Right? Right. And that's that's what happens if we're if that's our definition of spontaneity is we don't put any intentionality into it. Mhmm. It will just never happen, or it will be an unmitigated disaster.
Cameron:What my experience with spontaneous sex is this might not be everyone's experience. Is is that it generally it generally only draws on one of those components of what we believe sex is the purpose of sex is for. It becomes difficult, I think, to create intimacy in spontaneity. Yeah. You can create pleasure.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And there's nothing wrong with that. But I think I I think that there is I think having sex simply for the physical pleasure of having sex is a perfectly legitimate reason to have sex with your spouse.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:I think that, like, I don't think it's carnal. I don't think it's cavemanish. I think it is a perfectly legitimate, like, reason. Mhmm. Say, like, you know, we had spontaneous sex because we physically wanted to.
Cameron:Mhmm. But I think that it be but but you just gotta be honest with yourself at that point and what your what it is what type of sex that this is Right. And what its purpose is in the moment. But because, yeah, I think spontaneous sex, or I think sex is is about being intentional. Yeah.
Luke:No matter how or what How
Cameron:it happens. It's
Luke:has to have that key component of intentionality. Yeah. Seeking to not be able.
