Healthy Marriages - Creating Deeper Connection
We model our marriages after those marriages that we saw most often.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:If we don't see a lot of positive patterns or pattern patterns or rituals for connection Yep. We have a low stocked library of ways to connect with our spouse. Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. I'm pastor Cameron.
Luke:And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. We've spent the last several episodes talking about marriage, and this is kind of at least the last planned episode we have on kinda digging into some of this topic of marriage. Last week, we talked about, how to, avoid or I should say last episode. So if you're watching us, we're not just wearing the same clothes.
Cameron:We wear the same thing every week.
Luke:Every week, every day. No. But last episode, we talked about patterns to avoid. And today, we wanna talk about rituals for connection or maybe patterns to pursue would be another way of saying that, and kind of dive in and kind of because because I think that was one of the things that I thought was really beneficial to hear from the marriage conference when we were at it, was hearing you, Cliff and Rodney from Crosspoint Ministries, hearing just kind of a glimpse into other people's marriages of some of those rituals, those patterns of seeking connection and building into a relationship that I'm like, oh, that's a really neat idea or that's cool. Maybe we could do something similar like that.
Luke:And just ways to build into the relationship that, we don't always get to see. You know? Like, we we talked about this in our, like, first or first couple episodes on this. Like, we model our marriages after those marriages that we saw most often.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And so if we don't see a lot of pat positive patterns or pattern patterns or rituals for connection Yep. We have a low stocked library of ways to connect with our spouse. So
Cameron:Yep. Yeah. Agreed. Like, we should be even not just in the premarital stage or as kids, but, like, even as we're married.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I think it's important that we have marriages that we look at and learn from. Yeah. Mentors. We could do a whole episode on the spiritual art of mentorship.
Luke:Oh my gosh. Yes. Because it gets done wrong a lot.
Cameron:Yeah. I got a lot to say about that. Yeah. Yeah. I've met with the same man every week for the past 17 years.
Luke:Wow. Didn't realize it had been that long.
Cameron:Yep. Yeah. It was right when I went to my 2nd church. My second appointment was that year.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And one of the reasons, one of the reasons actually, the primary reason he's retired from ministry now. He's a pastor. Has adult children and grandkids and all that and married. And but one of the reasons primary reasons that I was like, I approached him 1 year at annual conference, and I was like, will you would you mentor me? Would you be willing to meet with me on a regular basis?
Cameron:Mhmm. And we just actually had this conversation a couple weeks ago. He was like, what led you to do that? Mhmm. And and there was a bunch of reasons, but one of them was like, well, I recognized that you were nearing the end of ministry.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Almost ready to retire. And, I mean, he led a, by all accounts and by all descriptions, a successful church, a healthy church Mhmm. Did a good job pastoring.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:But what I was really intrigued with is that his family was intact.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:He had a happy and vibrant marriage.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:All of his kids loved the Lord. Mhmm. We're serving the Lord in various capacities, not not occupationally Yeah. But serving the Lord in various capacities, had spouses that believed, had grandkids that believed. Mhmm.
Cameron:There was obviously a legacy of faith. Yeah. And I was like, if I get to the end of what will be for me, if I retire at my, you know, like, no at a normal retirement age, say, 67 years old, I will have been pastoring for 45, 46 years Mhmm. At that point. So if I get through 46 years of ministry and my family is intact and my marriage is healthy and my kids love the Lord, don't hate the church, don't hate me.
Cameron:Yeah. Then I'm like, I don't care what I did here in this building. Mhmm. I don't care. If if if that's good, I'm good.
Cameron:Yep. I'm good. So, mentorship.
Luke:Yeah. But we need we need I think that, like, this this will lead back into our conversation here. But one of the things that I think is so important is not just advice from mentors
Cameron:Mm-mm.
Luke:But an image from mentors. Yep. Like, we need to see people more than we need to just hear their, like, 10 best tips for this or advice on this. There's an intangible quality to just seeing what they look like, how they act, how they behave, how they handle and carry themselves, that creates an image for us to model ourselves after. That's worth its weight in gold compared to any list of, you know, hacks, tips, tricks, best practices.
Luke:It's that image.
Cameron:Honestly, in 17 years of meeting together, there hasn't been that many times we've been like, what would you do in this ministry situation, or what would you do with this particular thing? Or how would you preach this passage or anything like that? Yeah. It's not really been like that. We naturally get into those conversations because that's our both of our primary portion of our lives, but it has is mostly just been about, like, life on life.
Cameron:Mhmm. A role model. Yeah. You know? He's bought Christmas gifts for my kids, and, like, it's just Yeah.
Luke:So But we need that for our marriages too.
Cameron:That for our marriages.
Luke:Because Mhmm. We need an image of what a healthy marriage looks like sometimes
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Or a way to kind of steer and grow our relationship if we don't feel like we have a really big bag of tools or we just just don't even know what it looks like. We're just kind of we've got one image in our head, and there's some good things about that image, and there's some bad things. And we just wanna Mhmm. Have some other ways to kinda direct and build our relationship.
Cameron:Mhmm. Yeah. So when we talk about then patterns of connection Mhmm. In marriage or creating, however you wanna call it. I don't know what you want.
Cameron:You you had a good description of it in the intro, but creating patterns of of connection with one another. Mhmm. I I I I think that starting at the most base level of creating those patterns is a mindset from both partners or both parties in the marriage. Yep. A mindset that says, this is the most important human relationship Yep.
Cameron:That we have. Yep. Period. Mhmm. Bar none.
Cameron:Without question, there is no other relationship that is more important. Yep. Not with my parents, not with my friends, not with my siblings, not with my kids Yep. Not with my coworkers Yep. Not with my dreams, not with my, ambitions Mhmm.
Cameron:You know, not with anything else. My relationship with my spouse is the most important relationship human relationship that I have.
Luke:Uh-huh.
Cameron:Because if you don't start there,
Luke:you you'll be in trouble. But and and so that the the phrase that's most I don't know if it's most often. I think it might be the most often, like, description of marriage in the bible is this is why, a husband should leave his family Mhmm. Or and be with his wife so that 2 shall become one flesh. Mhmm.
Luke:Right? That said Cleave. Cleave. Right? Leave and cleave.
Luke:Mhmm. There is a separation. There's there's a loss that happens at a at a at a marriage. The family loses Yep. Their children and a new family is born.
Luke:And this is so important. I remember the way I think about this, this phrase has stuck with me from this book I read. I think it was wired for dating, And there's maybe a companion book that's wired for marriage, or wired for connection. It's some sort of title like that. I can't remember the author.
Luke:But he described he's like, this is one of the most important things you gotta get in your marriage. Right? You have to have a couple bubble.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:You have to have this bubble of safety that nobody comes inside the bubble Mhmm. With me and my wife, me and my husband, whatever. And the one of the ways that this always like, the classic, the sitcom, the stereotypical way that this happens is with mother in laws.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Like, you know, like, just just think of Everybody Loves Raymond or whatever sitcom from, like, then at that time period. Like, the mother-in-law lives across the street and comes over all the time, and that is the source of all the conflict in the show. Right? Because the husband won't leave won't leave the family. Don't won't leave the responsibility.
Luke:And the wife is always left guessing
Cameron:Who's more important?
Luke:Who's more important, mom or me? Mhmm. That's the stereotypical example. But that can happen with kids like we're talking about in last episode, job, and can talk to just about anything. And that moment when a spouse doesn't feel that safety that, like, they're gonna pick me no matter what.
Luke:Mhmm. Even if I'm, like, even if I'm kind of wrong, are they still gonna back me up? Mhmm. Like, that's a really important amount of safety and prioritization that's, like, important in, like, a marriage. So that's how I always think about it in my head is I'm always saying, like, alright.
Luke:Couple bubble. Like because it's kinda fun to say. But Yeah.
Cameron:No. It's a great example, and it's very, very true. And that's exactly what we're talking about is that there has to be a mindset that the bubble can't be popped. Yep. The bubble can't be infiltrated.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Like, this is it. That if you're not prepared for that if you're not prepared for that going into your marriage, it can be hard that can be a hard reality to accept. Yep. Especially with families with really clo close family dynamics and closed family systems.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:That is can be one of the most significant problem areas for couples who experience difficulty is when they're unwilling to make their spouse the most important human relationship that they have. Yeah. So the very first thing, is, is a mindset to say, that this is the most important relationship that I have. And because it's the most important relationship that I have, I'm going to order my life accordingly
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:So that we don't just walk, you know, that we're not that we you know, we may be walking side by side in, like, kind of a parallel way, but, like, that we're actually creating connections, we do so. Yeah. Yeah. So say one of the things about creating rituals of connection is, is deciding on and determining on at least I I use the the I I use it kind of arbitrarily, but it's the word that it's the it's the kind of, like, time based world that we live in. So I'll just say once a week.
Cameron:K? Once a week that there is a consecrated time of we'll use we'll use the term. There's a consecrated time of couple bubble. Bubble bubble is not it's not infiltrated
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Or popped Mhmm. Or taken off or whatever. Yep. But, by anything or anyone Yeah. Else.
Cameron:So a a consecrated time. Consecration means to set something apart
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:From the whole. Yep. So that would mean, like, you know, for Sherry and I, as a for instance, I talked a little bit about this at the at the marriage conference. Because the nature of our life, the nature of our family, and the nature of our schedule, We have 2 consecrated times per week.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Friday nights and Sunday nights.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Now there's a couple reasons that we chose those times and chose it like we did. The first is we chose Friday nights and Sunday nights because Friday is my day off typically. And at the end of a Friday night, I'm more relaxed. Yep. We've probably spent a good portion of the day together.
Cameron:Mhmm. I'm not I'm not burnt out from a day of work. Yep. I don't have to get up early.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:In the morning. Yep. You know? So we can stay up later. And then, so Friday night and then Sunday night.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:The, you know, the kind of the biggest day of my week is done. Maybe I've taken a nap in the afternoon to recover from preaching and or leading. You know, the whole family has been home, so we've gotten really good family time together. Yep. And so then now it's time to reconnect with one another Mhmm.
Cameron:Individually. And just because of the nature of our family and because we have difficult time with, you know, always securing babysitters or whatever,
Luke:you know You mean it's hard to get a babysitter for, like, 5 kids?
Cameron:It is very hard. It is very hard. Yep. Especially once a week.
Luke:Oh, yeah.
Cameron:Super hard. Mhmm. So we just say, like, okay. On those two nights, we we don't have we don't sit down for dinner with the kids. Yeah.
Cameron:Well, obviously, the kids get dinner and all that. But on Friday nights Saturday nights, we or Sunday nights. I'm sorry. They get their own dinner. We do the whole bedtime routine and and stuff.
Cameron:Sunday night, we might put them to bed just a little bit earlier than normal. They got school the next day, you know, etcetera. And then we have specific things that we do on Friday and specific things that we do on Sunday. Like on Friday night, we always get takeout. Yeah.
Cameron:The 2 of us. So we'll call a restaurant, we'll order takeout. I'll go pick it up, bring it home. It's like picnic on top of the bed. Yeah.
Cameron:Watch whatever Netflix show we're currently watching or whatever. We'll eat our dinner. We'll spend that time just consecrated, set apart, just the 2 of us at home date. Sunday, we've got a family tradition of it's kinda the same thing, but we kinda have a family tradition of, eating, popcorn, cheese, apples, pepperoni, crackers.
Luke:Like, the greatest charcuterie board you can put together?
Cameron:Right. Yeah. On Sunday night. Kids eat it. Mhmm.
Cameron:We eat it. So kids get their own for dinner, and then we get our own, after the kids go to bed. And so, and it has just been for us what we have always done. Mhmm. But what it what it has done is it has ritualized the prioritization of one another.
Cameron:Yep. And it has given us something to be anticipating Yep. And looking forward to
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And also building into. So, like, there's there's kind of nothing worse than spending quiet time with a person that you've ignored all day. Yeah. Mhmm. Or that you are You've
Luke:been not been present with at all during the
Cameron:week. Or you're or you're arguing with. Yeah. Mhmm. Or whatever.
Cameron:And so knowing that Friday night is coming Mhmm. We're both proactively looking for Yeah. To make sure that we are the slate is clean between us. We've had a disagreement. There's understanding.
Cameron:There's forgiveness. Yeah. There's reconciliation. If we haven't spent a lot of time together
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That we are crew we are even carving out in the in the middle of the day opportunities to connect face to face Mhmm. Eye to eye conversation, time spent with one another. So when we come together on that night and there's any hope for any intimacy
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Whatsoever. Right? That we're not having to, like, play catch up Right. Or cheapening it. Mhmm.
Cameron:Cheapening intimacy by just engaging in physical intimacy, but having no emotional intimacy throughout the week of the day. Right. And so people are like, well, that's so not spontaneous and not romantic. And, like, you know Part
Luke:of your week is spontaneous.
Cameron:Right. Like, who's
Luke:living that life
Cameron:with kids? I don't know. But, like job. I don't know. I think I think romance is intentional Yeah.
Cameron:Not spontaneous.
Luke:Yeah. Well, you can be spontaneous on top of being intentional.
Cameron:Right. Yes. Like Just because you're intentional 2 times a week
Luke:Doesn't mean you can't be spontaneous. Right.
Cameron:I
Luke:mean, like Exactly. I think that's I think that's a you know, I've heard you describe that ritual before, and I'm like, yeah. That's such a good habit. And right now, you know, Oxana and I don't have any kids right now, and we're we can be pretty spontaneous. Mhmm.
Luke:Right? And we are. And so that's that's a lot of fun. Mhmm. But, like, when we when things when life gets more complicated with kids, like Mhmm.
Luke:We're gonna have to get into a place where, like, this is the time. And Mhmm. Like, the thing that I've heard, the advice that I've heard is that you need at least one of those couple bubble nights. Right? Like a date night, however you wanna talk about it.
Luke:But then you also need a time set apart for, like, a family business, couple business, like, meeting. And, Oxana and I, we're not, like, we're not perfect on making both of those execute all the time. Mhmm. But we know that if we don't have, like, a time to sit down to go over our schedules, go over our finances, do all the, like, business things. Stuff like, alright.
Luke:What's coming up next month? And when are you traveling? And when is this happening? And what's going if we don't do that at some point, our date night is just gonna be all of that. And you don't want that to be the thing.
Luke:Like, your date night is not when you make your, like, shuttling plans of the kids next week because that's not a whole lot of fun. Mhmm. Mhmm. So you almost have to have this, like you can call it a business meeting, family plan meeting, like, whatever you wanna call it, where you can it's still a type of connection. Right?
Luke:Like, it's a still a way of, like, connecting, caring for one another, but it's not gonna be your, like, your fun date night necessarily. It's but it's just gotta it's got something that's gonna happen. Otherwise, you're you're just going to kinda have this routine of, like, you get to this place where you're supposed to be emotionally connecting, but your brain can't shut off because you're like, well, I need you to drive the kids tomorrow, and I got this thing and Mhmm. You're 10 gazillion other places.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. I think too, like that with that's, like, kind of the weekly rhythm. But, like, there's other rhythms that, like, you can build in. Like, you're I'm big on, like, daily kind of daily kind of rituals.
Luke:Like, how we say goodbye, how we greet each other. Mhmm. Like, it was it's like it's a big thing. I try my best that whenever she comes home, I put down my laptop or whatever I'm doing. I get up and I go greet her.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Because, like, I think that's, like, a really important thing that
Cameron:we do. Yep.
Luke:Like, how we greet each other. Yep. You know, good morning texts, check-in texts, or whatever. Like, those things too, like, on a daily basis. Sometimes they're really easy for us to do when we're dating.
Luke:Like, you know, like, when we're dating, it was really easy to say, oh, good morning, you know, and send her a morning text and a good night text and all that. But then once we got married, it was like, oh, well, that kinda went away, you know, but like, we gotta find other ways to have that same ritual of connection and greeting. And so that we get that affirmation both physically, emotionally, and all of that.
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:But then even like, you can do quarterly stay away or a yearly week away or whatever. Like, there's different patterns and rituals in the year, the week, the month that couples can do to kind of build connection and retreat and rest with each other.
Cameron:Yeah. And I would encourage couples to make those to 1, to schedule them and to make them as regular as humanly possible. Mhmm. Same day, same time every week. Yeah.
Cameron:There is a there is a, and maybe some people would just absolutely think that this is sounds like absolutely horrible. Right. But the the fact that we we, so on Friday nights, we order the same thing from the same restaurant.
Luke:My wife would hate that.
Cameron:Every well, I would say virtually every single week. Not every single week. Sometimes we're like, oh, do something different this week. And Yeah. We do.
Cameron:But for the most part, it's the same thing. And obviously, we do the same thing on Sundays. And there is a there is comfort, at least for us, I would say. Maybe it's this is all individual, but I also think that it takes you know how it's like, you sometimes hear the stories about how billionaires wear Oh, yeah. The same outfit every day?
Luke:Like, Steve Jobs was, like, kinda famous for me.
Cameron:Yeah. Black pants, black shirt. Yeah. Every day. Yeah.
Cameron:Because he was like, why would I spend any bit of my mental energy picking out my clothes?
Luke:Mhmm. Yep. Planning dates can be tiring. Right. If you're if you're like like, where are we gonna go eat?
Luke:And you or Yeah.
Cameron:Everyone's been there.
Luke:Everyone's been there. Everyone has been staring at Netflix. What are we gonna watch? Yep. Everyone's been there.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Or what day are we gonna do it? Or what time are we gonna do it or whatever? So that's why I say that, like, as much intentionality as you can build into it and pattern as you can build into it Yeah. The more energy that you have to actually connect with the person. Yeah.
Cameron:There's also a sense of comfort that comes with the familiarity. Like, I walk into the same restaurant every Friday night. Mhmm. Generally, the same period of time. See the same people.
Cameron:Talk to the same people. Yeah. Go through the same pattern. There's just like the sense of, like, rootedness and and control over my own schedule. Yeah.
Cameron:But definitely scheduling the night or the day or the, you know, whatever, because so easier for that to be just overtaken by a bunch of other things.
Luke:And if you're, you know, if you wanna break that pattern of, you know, you're kinda like, I don't know how to like kind of reinvigorize or kind of do something different. Me and my wife have we were gifted, I think, at our wedding. We were gifted this book of, like, scratch off date nights. Mhmm.
Cameron:I
Luke:think it was like the couple's adventure challenge or something like that. And every page has kinda got, like, all these different categories of dates. And they kinda give you a general sense of, like, what it's going to be. Like, okay. You need to travel for this one, or it's gonna take about this long, or this is a stay at home, or this one's gonna require you to go buy some resources ahead of time.
Luke:Take a quarter, you scrape it off, and it gives you this date night. And then one of you can be in charge of going gathering it, planning it. And it's it's like a baked in date night.
Cameron:It's super fun.
Luke:Super fun. I think one night, we did one where, we had to draw a comic strip of, like, our of our relationship so far or something like that. And, like, it was really fun for us to both try some, stick figures. Mhmm. So it was it was a good time.
Cameron:Yeah. Mhmm. So other ways, maybe more seemingly nebulous or benign ways is to, like, develop to develop shared experiences or shared life. Yeah. So these would be things that are that no longer represent us as individuals, but now represent us as couples.
Cameron:Yep. As a couple. So it's the a shared or common interest, a shared or common experience, a shared and common language even. Yeah. Like, the way in which we talk to each other and the phrases that we use and the things that we only know how well, like, we only know what they mean in talking to them.
Cameron:Our power strip's falling off. It's okay. But it's stuff like this where we develop the sense of, like, shared life. Yeah. Some of that can is just built well over time.
Cameron:There's not really a substitute for the time that it takes to develop that shared life.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:But there are also ways that you can begin to develop interests as couples that maybe you didn't have as individuals. So
Luke:Yeah. It's like you have down here, like, you can develop, like, a shared, like, a shared language. Mhmm. You know? Me and my wife speak to each other sometimes in memes.
Luke:Yep. So we've got one
Cameron:and I speak to each other in office quotes?
Luke:Yeah. Right? Yeah. There's just, like, kind of phrases that will just kinda, like, goofy inside jokes, that will pass back and forth to kinda describe what we're going through or what's happening right now or something. And that just creates a sense of, like, there's an insider language that's shared here that's just it's fun.
Luke:It's goofy, and it's a way of just kind of connecting with one another. It's an inside joke. Sometimes we say some of those things. We end up saying them in front of other people, and they're just like, what's going on? What's going on?
Luke:What are you doing? They're just getting really they're just like Yep. You're gonna have to explain that.
Cameron:Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So I don't know. I, like, I don't know if any of those are helpful for any of our listeners or anything like that, but I can tell you that they have worked to sustain Yeah.
Cameron:My marriage. Mhmm. 2 decades Yeah. Couple different moves, couple different churches, family transitions, difficult circumstances and situations. And man, if it were not for those types of consecrated times, especially Mhmm.
Cameron:That I would be, I don't know that we, Sherry and I, would have grown as close to one another as we have. So Yeah.
Luke:Yep. It is finding those particularly new, I find, like, new shared things. Mhmm. It's one thing when I try and bring along on something that I am already really passionate about. But I find that it's best when I'm like, let's do something neither of us have done before.
Cameron:Yes.
Luke:That's like a big one because it's Yep. Showing a willingness of me to go outside my comfort zone. And then with something that gets to be our own, and it's not something that was mine and I brought in. It's something that we do together.
Cameron:A shared interest. Shared interests Yeah.
Luke:That are built together.
Cameron:Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. Well, hopefully, that those little series of podcast episodes helpful for, you who are married or preparing to be married or wanna be married or not just helpful in general. If you're watching on YouTube, you might recognize that we have a little bit of a different setup
Luke:Yep. Here. We also have fluorescent lights shooting down on our heads anyway.
Cameron:Got some nice lighting. We have, a lot of great ideas. Some cool lights in the background. Anyway, we appreciate all you who listening with us. Thank you all for sticking with us in our little, I don't know.
Cameron:It's, like, 5, 6 month hiatus there.
Luke:It was. It was a big big hiatus.
Cameron:Yep. But we're back. We're back. And, batch recording some episodes that we keep them updating live for you week to week. So we'll catch you on the next one.
