Biblical Fasting: What it is & How to do it
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke.
Cameron:Hi. I'm pastor Cameron.
Luke:And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Well, welcome back, everybody. Cameron and I are sipping on our
Cameron:tea tea, of course. No coffee in this room.
Luke:Yeah. We're sitting down to have a conversation. We've been, how many weeks has it been now? Three weeks? Four weeks?
Cameron:Four weeks, I think. Yeah.
Luke:Prayer Mhmm. Up in our service. Maybe the good place to start with this is just to say, like, what your intention with the because I know that you have some really intentionality around the way you've structured and chose to talk about prayer.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And it's maybe not the way that, you know, somebody probably not the way I would have written a sermon series
Cameron:on prayer.
Luke:So, like, tell us about that methodology, and maybe that will inform form a little bit of the way we go about talking about it here.
Cameron:Yep. So I have preached handfuls of series and sermons on prayers over, you know, the span of ministry, and most of them have been somehow connected to the nuts and bolts or practical ways in which we create a more structured, better biblical Mhmm. Prayer life.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So that would include things like taking the lord's prayer and breaking each stanza down into a category of type of prayer.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Who who's prayer to? The worship of the father, for instance. Our daily bread, you know, petition, asking for safety from temptation, all of that. And then saying, okay, how do we essentially modernize the the language around the categories in order to build a structure of prayer?
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Or you talk about the importance of persistence from several of the different Yeah. Parables or stories of Jesus, or you develop models of prayer like the, acts model. Right?
Luke:Sure.
Cameron:Adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication Yeah. As a way. And I think that those types of things are really valuable, continue to be really valuable Yep.
Luke:In helping people to develop a life, a greater life of prayer.
Luke:Mhmm.
Luke:I just felt and this is a little bit a little bit, if you want
Cameron:a little bit of an insight into a preacher's mind and process, and at least this preacher's mind process, personal life of devotion
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Etcetera, is I felt like I just could not preach a series like that this time around. And the reason that I couldn't is because I had become so so tired of preaching as form or I'm sorry. As for, I'd become so tired of praying as form Mhmm. Rather than praying as intimacy. Like, I had just become so worn out on feeling a call to duty and discipline and form and structure.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And in fact, in the class that I taught last night on prayer, John Mark Comer said, most of us are afraid to admit that prayer is boring to us. Mhmm. And I felt I feel that deeply. I felt that deeply as I was thinking about this series. And so I began to ask the Lord to change my heart, and I began to do things even earlier in my life or earlier, to pursue to actually pursue him.
Cameron:Mhmm. Pursue his face, seek his face. And what came out of that, like, pre season of this prayer season for me was that the there was one central theme that I felt like the Lord drawing me back to when it came to prayer. And that was essentially him saying to me, Cameron, prayer is an invitation to intimacy with me.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Like, I am inviting you to come and experience the thing that you intrinsically feel your heart needs and that your soul longs for, that essentially you were created for. Yeah. Intimacy with me. If you are if you are done with the form, devoid of power, form devoid of power Mhmm. Then begin to see prayer as an invitation to come into intimacy with me.
Cameron:Yeah. And so I wanted to just kind of ask the question of him. Alright. Well, what would a what how would I preach this? Like, I wanna so kind of the the roundabout answer to the question is I chose this route or this focus or this theme of prayer to run through the whole thing based off of what the lord was doing in my life
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:As an overflow of what he's what of what he's been teaching me.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And so these these sermons that I've been preaching on prayer are not just something like, oh, I'm just pulling them out of the catacombs of my, like, a book that I read or the schooling that I have or whatever the case. Not pulling them out of the catacombs of that. I'm pulling them out of my prayer journal. Mhmm. I'm pulling them out of my the time in the secret place.
Cameron:I'm pulling them out of, like, the last three months of experience with the lord
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:And saying, alright, Lord. I'm trusting that as the pastor of this place
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That whatever anointing or blessing you've been giving to me in this stuff, in this season, that you're you're you're like, give it give it to me so that I can give it to them. Yeah. So the the whole of the the whole of the sir the series has been built around this idea that god, uses prayer or that prayer is the is a context where we develop greater intimacy with God.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And when we see things or interact with things on the basis of the development of intimacy, it changes the way that we approach it in comparison to the way that we approach something that is like prayer as just a duty. You just gotta do it because every Christian should do it. So started with prayer, a general message on prayer as invitation to in intimacy, then prayed or then preached on the what was the next one? The secret place.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Prayer in the secret place. Yep. And, the well, I think the like, the power of the secret place of prayer with the Lord and what it does. Last week, preached on intercession and the not not just like making the list. Mhmm.
Cameron:Love lists. Yeah. Praying myself. But about letting the Lord lift our vision for our role as intercessors and his desire to co labor with us in the, like, the building of his kingdom Mhmm. Here on earth.
Cameron:And that part of the way that we co labor with him is to join Jesus in the ministry of intercession. Jesus is interceding for us. We're interceding for others, but we're now we're also interceding for our city, for our region, for churches, for I'm interceding for businesses that they would be filled with the spirit and filled with integrity and Mhmm. Leverage their influence for the glory of the kingdom. And so, intercession as like this invitation to be co creators of the king of kingdom building on the on the earth.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And then this week, I'm preaching on fasting.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Which is, I was reading yesterday, Scott McKnight, has he he says that fasting is whole body praying.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:So the connection between prayer and fasting is that when we fast, we we we essentially, enlist our bodies Yeah. Into the act of praying. So it's like a whole body experience. I loved I loved that because I've often had trouble kind of discerning and and truth be told, still do, but I'm okay with embracing the mystery
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Of what it is about
Luke:fasting that
Cameron:brings the power.
Luke:Yeah. Because I I wanna I wanna lean in here lean in here a little bit because I this is the thing that I think we struggle with. And there like, why is fasting such a unpracticed discipline Mhmm. In evangelical protestant Christianity? Mhmm.
Luke:I won't go so as far as to say all of Protestantism, but it's definitely, like, Catholics and Orthodox. Everyone essentially, anyone who's not Protestant has a much more robust practice of, fasting.
Luke:Or they or you like, even Catholics, maybe they don't maybe, like, day to day Catholics don't they
Cameron:don't practice Right. Fasting as often, but they cert but they're but the the Catholic faith itself has a robust theology
Luke:Right.
Cameron:And an official practice of fasting.
Luke:Yeah. I think that's probably a better way of saying it because I I know that there's probably a lot of listeners who are like, we never fasted when I was Catholic or whatever.
Cameron:Or, like, yeah. We only ate meat on Fridays, and it was fished during lent.
Luke:Yeah. You know? But they didn't they didn't they didn't have a concept conceptualizing of it. So Right. That's a good that's a good distinction to make.
Luke:So that at least officially inside of their denomination, there is a robust theology and space to practice it. Whereas, like, the conversation around fasting in our circles is always just, like, why?
Cameron:Why would you do that?
Luke:Why would you why why is that a thing? And I'll share I think I I don't think my small group would mind, but, like so I'm I participate in a small group here at the church, and we've been doing the different spiritual disciplines, through practicing the way we've been. And when we started, there was, like, it was only a couple courses out and, like, it was, like, prayer and fasting. Mhmm. And we're like, well, we're not doing fasting.
Luke:And so we have, like, avoided doing the fasting practice because it was like no one wanted to fast. And, our small group leader, came around. We were going to do a different, like, a different practice until, like, she felt the conviction. And she was just like, you know what? Let's fast.
Luke:Let's do the fasting practice. That's the one that we're like all kind of quietly giggling and then ignoring, because we don't really wanna do it. And I'll tell you what, like, there is something. The people who are in the, in the group participating in that, like, is everyone has been like, this has been like our favorite. And, like like, it was the thing that, like, everybody was the most reluctant to do, and it's the thing that has probably brought, the most participation in it.
Luke:And so, and I won't overshare more than that. But, so yeah. What I wanna go back to that quote because I think that Scott McKnight quote is at the core of it. Fasting is praying with our whole body. It's whole body prayer.
Luke:Mhmm. Why is that a difficult thing for us to understand?
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I think one of the reasons that it's difficult for us to understand is because we compart we have compartmentalized our relationship with the Lord to just the spiritual. Mhmm. We have kind of this almost like pseudo gnostic practice of or pseudo gnostic belief that, you know, my well, my body's not involved in, like, my spirituality. It's like Yeah. Yeah.
Cameron:They're separate things. Like, why would I even consider that? And the, but when it it's almost like we have forgotten the order in which we were created. Our bodies were created first. Like, God God created a Craig, God God created bodies and put in us his spirit.
Cameron:Yeah. He didn't create a spirit and then say, hey. That thing needs a body. Right.
Luke:Like the body's an afterthought.
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Mhmm. The body wasn't an afterthought. The body was the first thought.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And so I feel like there has been a, we just have never Western Christianity, I don't think, has ever really had a super high view of the body as it pertains to our relationship with the Lord. We have just assumed that everything is spiritual Yeah. And a little bit esoteric. Whereas the practice of fasting, I think it regrounds and anchors us to the reality that we are whole beings. Mhmm.
Cameron:And that the things that we pursue in the in our physical nature and in our body Mhmm. Are more than just connected to our spirits, but that they are what we do in the body moves in the spirit realm. Mhmm. It moves things. Fasting being one of the most significant, like, I'm gonna talk and I'm gonna take some license with it this weekend Yeah.
Cameron:About the passage in Matthew where the disciples are unable to cast the demon out. Yeah. And Jesus comes along and does it. And then they come to him afterwards and they say, why couldn't we? Yep.
Cameron:And he says, this kind comes out only by prayer and fasting. Mhmm. And so that there was a, there was something that needed to be done in the physicality of their bodies that was enormously powerful in the spiritual realm. And that we to ignore that Yeah. Is to forfeit the power that God has made available in
Luke:it. Mhmm.
Cameron:I also think that we have become very self indulgent, and, and we have become gluttonous. We have become lovers of pleasure Mhmm. And have adopted a form of Christianity that excuse any type of suffering.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Right? Like, my faith with God, my faith in God, my relationship with Jesus will never like, it's all about the pursuit of happiness. It's all about the per, like, progress, blessing, favor, health, vitality. And we just do not have a theology of suffering.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:We don't have a theology of suffering that is redemptive Mhmm. And that is proactive in the building of our spirits.
Luke:Yeah. Like, why would I intentionally endure suffering? Correct. We do talk about sometimes, like,
Cameron:what to do when When you suffer.
Luke:When you suffer, like, because it's happening and you didn't choose it. But, like
Cameron:But what about when you pursue suffering in the body? Yeah.
Luke:And why would you
Cameron:do that? Say those who suffer in the body are what? Those who suffer in the body are done with sin. Mhmm.
Luke:They
Cameron:put to death sin. Yeah. So I think we have a we have a, a society and a church and, even really maybe even a faith practice that is gluttonous. Mhmm. It lives in excess.
Cameron:It lives it tries to make make its home in the absence of suffering Yeah. Which is the opposite of our Lord.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And so it becomes difficult to have it becomes difficult to, like, even consider or talk about why we would do that. The the third and this is something that I'm I don't know. I I like I I wonder what you think about this, and I'm this will come out after I preach the sermon on fasting. So I guess you can go back and make a determination as to you you can go back and listen to this and listen to the sermon and make a determination as to what decision I made after this conversation is, it's connected to our desire to avoid suffering, but it's what I what like, what I had seen, what I have seen and experienced, and, and something that I was reading in Richard Foster
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:About fasting. And he essentially and I don't think he was making as strong as I intend to make it or as I think I want to make it.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:You said that the biblical practice of fasting always centered around food.
Luke:Yeah. How's this gonna be my next question?
Cameron:And that he didn't he didn't take it to this, but I'm gonna take it to this, is that the modern Christian, the church evangelical, Western Christianity has kind of morphed fasting into the, like, divesting yourself of other modern, conveniences. Yeah. Oh, I'm fasting from Netflix today. I'm fasting from
Luke:Right.
Cameron:Social media.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I'm fasting from Well whatever the case may be.
Luke:To to to add to this, I remember being in high school. First time I was exposed to, like, Lent and fasting. I was attending a Christian high school, and our Bible teacher at the time was like, hey. Like, it's Lent season. You know, I don't know know that not everybody's church celebrates or observes Lent or anything like that, but it's part of, like, church history.
Luke:And, like, you know, he kinda gave us, like, a teaching about us and kind of, like, you know, maybe put something, like did he want us to put something, like, anonymously up on the board in the back or something like that? He, like, had us write on, like, note cards something we were gonna fast from for the season of Latin. Mhmm. High school guys, like Right. Porn.
Luke:Like,
Cameron:what's up with the porn?
Luke:You know? But, like, a lot of things that went up there were secular music, because, you know, it was the that was the time it was the day and age where, like, Christians were all out against anything that wasn't Christian. But, anyways,
Cameron:Here here's the here's my kind of, like, where I'm thinking. Like, listen. We don't fast from things that have become idols.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:We smash idols and we remove them from our lives permanently. Fasting is temporary.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So we if if something has a level of control over us
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That we feel the necessity to fast from
Luke:it Mhmm.
Cameron:Then we should be questioning its purpose in our life, its place in our life, social media, Netflix. Yeah. You know, all of those those types of things. Right? Food is a necessity of life, that daily bread has clearly been provided for us in scripture by the Lord.
Cameron:Mhmm. And so food kind of sits in a different category of this is not like, does food become an idol for people? Absolutely. Just fast from it for fast from it for a few days and recognize the power that it has over your life. Yeah.
Cameron:That food has for the power it has over your emotions.
Luke:Mhmm.
Luke:The power
Cameron:it has over your, over, like, your thoughts, over your hungers, your affections. Yep. It's got power. So my essential contention is that we need to stop talking about fasting from social media and fasting from Yeah. Netflix.
Cameron:Mhmm. If you need to fast from that, maybe you should just quit it. Right. And instead, just embrace the reality that, like, fasting in scripture is centered solely around food with one other example excluded, which is Paul's encouragement to fast for a husband and wife to fast from sex Mhmm. For a season in order to devote themselves to prayer.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Which is again a uniquely physical fast.
Luke:There you go. Right.
Cameron:So
Luke:Yeah. That's, that's something that, like, I've, you know, I've encountered. I to be honest, a lot of times when it comes into when that, like, well, I wanna fast from something other than food. Mhmm. I know that in myself and generally the vibe I'm getting from where that discussion is stemming from is sometimes I feel more comfortable fasting from this than I do fasting from food.
Luke:Yes. So I think it's sometimes it's a it's a comfort factor of I feel way more comfortable fasting from this. Correct. This is gonna cause me less discomfort. Correct.
Luke:I think the other things I think there's, you know, I think there's good intention behind abstinence. Either, like, total abstinence from a thing, whether that be social media or Mhmm. Whatever the thing is that you feel like you need to abstain from Mhmm. For either a portion of time or all of the time. I I think you can abstain from things from a season.
Luke:I don't think that that's a unhelpful thing. Mhmm. Right?
Cameron:No. Absolutely.
Luke:And and not and not and not every absence needs to be total and forever. But I do think I think I might agree with you because I think the danger of allowing because our language matters. Our language matters. And the using the language of fasting to talk about fasting from social media or, like, your own abstaining from coffee. You're not fasting from coffee.
Luke:You're abstaining from coffee. If you were to use if we you allow the language of fasting to be so broad as to encompass anything that we might abstain from for any period of time. Yeah. What it does is it it waters the word down so much Yeah.
Cameron:Hijacks it. Yep.
Luke:So that I can go and I can say, well, I fast. Right. Do you, though?
Cameron:Right. This tie this kind only comes up my fasting and prayer. Lord, I gave up social media for two days.
Luke:Right. I didn't listen to secular rap for a whole month
Cameron:or whatever. Damn. Got a reaction. Guilty as charged.
Luke:But I I could fast from that, and I'm like, fine.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Didn't hurt me at all.
Cameron:I don't wanna listen to the gym anymore. I don't listen to rap.
Luke:But it creates a it it it lowers what fasting is so that it makes us easier for us to hide inside of the word and and not actually do the core fundamental most commonly practiced way of fasting. So, yeah, I I do think that, like, it's not that abstinence from time, from things for partial or whole or time is unimportant to your spiritual development. I think that's actually really great. I think we should abstain from some of these other things and see what happens. See if we like life with less of it or none of it.
Cameron:It's just different.
Luke:But it's different. Yeah. It's not the same thing.
Cameron:Yep.
Luke:And I think at least my, like, my pragmatic argument for that is at least in being is that we need to do that so that we can recover what Fasting. Fasting from food actually is. Mhmm. Because if we don't and we continue to let fasting be this big category, we're just gonna get lost in it
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And not actually practice that one component of it.
Cameron:Mhmm. Yep. Agree. Yeah. So So it'll that that whole sentiment's probably gonna find its way into the sermon.
Cameron:I'm gonna try and be pastoral about it, but I also intend to be, I don't know, just clear that I I think we need to, like let's up the devotion Mhmm. To the Lord, and let's let's stop pretending that we're fasting when we're abstaining.
Luke:Mhmm. I have a question. And maybe this is maybe this is a good space for it because I don't I don't know how much time you're gonna have to, to talk about all the ins and outs of fasting in one sermon. What would you say to the outliers of the facts of the physically capable in the fasting practice.
Cameron:So either those who Pregnant breastfeeding.
Luke:Pregnant breastfeeding work work a significantly physical and labor intensive job
Luke:k.
Luke:Or struggle with eating eating disability of some sort. Yeah. Either they have a medical thing where they can't abstain or just mental health difficulty, like eating period is difficult for them. Mhmm. Like
Cameron:I would say don't fast. Yeah. You know? I I I would say don't. Yeah.
Cameron:I mean, that would be the fasting is meant fasting is meant to build us, not to destroy us, I think. Mhmm. And if there is if there is I have, like, I have I I would say people, like, who are who are medically sensitive
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:To that, you know, pregnant breastfeeding mothers, diabetics. Mhmm. Those who have other, like, nutrient based disorders or diseases or things that they're, you know, dealing with. Those who do, suffer from eating disorders of various different kinds either in scarcity or in abundance. I mean, those who just have significantly, physically taxing jobs, I'm not gonna say, you know, drink a Gatorade and suck it up type of thing.
Cameron:Honestly, like Yeah. Yep. Just suck suck, but type of thing.
Luke:Like Cameron went from a very pastoral answer to a, come on, bro. Yeah.
Cameron:Just let I mean, do it. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you and I know guys who work physically probably about as hard as anyone out there.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:And it's a regular practice, and they are finding it to be very fruitful and beneficial for their lives. I also think that there is a I think that when we I so I would tell those people in those situations that you you probably shouldn't. I don't think that the law just like fasting is a whole body activity, or fasting is whole body prayer and that that reality kind of exalts the importance of the body Mhmm. In the same way, we the gift of our body that the Lord has given to us, we wouldn't like, we shouldn't put in knowingly, like, harm's way.
Luke:Yeah. Right? Now, listen, the exception to that is if you get a
Cameron:extraordinarily clear call from the Lord. Mhmm. I'm a type one diabetic. I'm getting an extraordinarily clear call from the Lord. The Lord is calling me to fast.
Cameron:I know it. Mhmm. Very, very clear. Then I'm gonna tell you as a pastor to, like, in like, ensure the confidence of the call that it is from the Lord Mhmm. And then proceed with prayerful caution.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:You know? There because there are there are times in scripture, I think is it Moses Moses and Elijah did, like, forty day fasts, no food or water?
Luke:Yeah. There are there are accounts of
Cameron:total fasts.
Luke:No water, no food. Right.
Cameron:Which in modern medicine is two Three to four days without water, and it's over. You know? And so I I'm not gonna say that there are not that that the Lord does not give special dispensation in miraculous ways to allow people to fast for whatever reason Mhmm. Even if there's a medical instance. I just think that you better be super clear Right.
Cameron:That it's the Lord, obviously, or you're gonna be in a lot of physical. You're gonna be a lot in a lot of physical danger.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:And the second thing that I would say to that is that in situations like that, it I think it's important for us to not take an extremist view on what fasting the the the, length of a fast needs to be Mhmm. Or the extremity of a fast.
Luke:Right. That that becomes a place where I would say, let's be creative a little bit.
Cameron:Let's let's look at Daniel fasts. Yeah. Let's do a Daniel fast.
Luke:Mean the Daniel diet?
Cameron:The Daniel diet. No. Oh my
Luke:That's what it is, Cameron. Don't get
Cameron:me oh my gosh. I'm gonna have to preach on that. Don't even Oh, it's
Luke:not a fast, Cam. It's a diet. Cool. Yeah. Anyways The Daniel fast.
Luke:Right?
Cameron:So maybe do a Daniel fast. Yeah. Maybe do a, a fast from all solid foods, but you're gonna be getting nutrients from a liquid source.
Luke:A juice.
Cameron:A juice, a shake, a smoothie, or something like that.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Or fast for even I think even, like, most diabetics can fast for a meal.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Like, if they miss a single meal
Luke:Right.
Cameron:They may be maybe I'm speaking in a turn. I don't know. But to say all that to say Yeah.
Luke:We're not we're not medical professionals.
Cameron:No. Don't take my medical advice. All that to say is that regardless of the length of the fast, the Lord looks at the heart. Yeah. Yeah.
Cameron:So if the heart of a person who is medically sensitive says, lord, I'm gonna fast for as long as I am physically capable of doing it, which is one full meal
Luke:Yep. I I have to believe that it is the that it reaches
Cameron:faith as the person that fasts for forty days.
Luke:Yeah. Mhmm.
Cameron:So that would be my Yeah. I think general counsel.
Luke:I think I would say I I think we I mentioned this last time we talked about fasting or I I think I taught on fasting maybe a year, year or two ago. Is that for those who struggle with eating, eating disorder or even just a physical disability to be able to do it, is I would I would encourage them to lean into the I'm kind of being a little flexible here because it's not really a discipline, but I would lean into the discipline of feasting. Mhmm. Like, begin to lean into the theological significance and the eschatological significance of eating in community. Mhmm.
Luke:So Christ says with, the the Pharisees asked the disciples, hey. Why don't you and your disciples fast? They're not fasting. Mhmm. And he says they cannot fast because the bridegroom is like them.
Luke:Yep. I'm here. Yep. And so there there is intense theological significance behind having meals together. It was something the church did all the time.
Luke:And so if you have a complicated relationship with food for any of those numbers of reasons, it could be really, really beneficial to begin to say, how is food not meeting an emotional need? Or how's my it's not about my relationship to the food. It's about my relationship with those that I'm sharing the food with Mhmm. And how this is like a future taste of, Christ's coming and our participation in that in all of eternity Mhmm. At the supper feast of the lamb.
Luke:Mhmm. And so that would be where I would encourage, a leaning in, to perhaps even heal some of the emotional and spiritual, relationship around food in that regard. Yeah. But it gives a really positive way of of moving forward with that.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. I agree. I like that. It it's the other side of the coin.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:But
Luke:it it yep.
Luke:Yeah. Mhmm. Oh, okay. Hopefully, we didn't preach too much of your sermon.
Cameron:Hopefully not, but maybe we just we well, there there were some things there that that came out of me. We were talking about this earlier. Like, sometimes you don't know what's in you until you start talking and it just comes out of you. But there were some things there that came out of me. I'm like, yeah.
Cameron:That needs to be said, or that needs to be incorporated into the sermon. So it was helpful.
Luke:Cool. Alright. Well, join us next time.
Cameron:Join us next time. Thanks for joining us this time.
Luke:Yeah. Bye.
