Sabbath: Why is there so much resistance to sabbath?
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke.
Cameron:I'm pastor Cameron.
Luke:And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Back with another episode
Cameron:of talking fast and not too slow.
Luke:Talking fast, not too slow. We're gonna be talking about Sabbath today.
Cameron:Quickly.
Luke:Quickly. I feel like that's a little bit of the antithesis of it. Less. Yeah. So we kind of kicked off here last week on the podcast, but then also in their sermon series about Sabbath.
Luke:And maybe let's start with you were having we were beginning to have a conversation yesterday, Cam, where you were kind of preparing for last night's class where we talked about Sabbath, and you just had this sense Mhmm. That Sabbath was going to be the very difficult practice Yes. For our church to actually follow, more than more so than prayer.
Cameron:More more so than prayer. Yeah. I and I maybe I didn't really anticipate this as I was as we were talking about and planning the series for the year. But as I've been reading in Sabbath material, preparing for my times to preach in the Sabbath series, then also getting a better understanding even in my own self on Sabbath is and its purpose, it seems really clear to me that there is not as much even cultural, there's not as much cultural obstacles to prayer as there is cultural obstacles to Sabbath. Yeah.
Cameron:It is something that which is I I'm I'm wondering if that this is this is why we that the church has such a difficult time taking Sabbath seriously, is because unlike other areas, unlike other spiritual practices, we have not really been formed culturally in the antithesis of prayer. Mm-mm. But we have been formed culturally in the antithesis of Sabbath.
Luke:Yeah. Like, what's the opposite of prayer? Not prayer. Not prayer. But what's the opposite of Sabbath?
Luke:Literally, whole culture.
Cameron:Our whole culture. Yep. Busy, hurried, frantic, over consumption, never stopping, getting our identity from the things that we do Mhmm. From our work, thinking that more is better, embracing the grind Yep. Influencer life.
Cameron:Oh, yeah. You know? Mhmm. And so it is no wonder that we come into a conversation about Sabbath in the church, and everyone kind of snickers about it, as if it's like the thing that we talk about because we have to, but it's not the thing that we talk about because we're eager to pursue likeness of Jesus Mhmm. In Sabbath.
Cameron:Yeah. And for me, that I I read a sentence yesterday in one of the books that we're using for our Wednesday night Bible study, and it was essentially, it said, you know, that if you want to be a follower of Jesus Mhmm. If you want to apprentice in the way of Jesus, you have to do the things that Jesus did. Yeah. And Jesus Sabbathed.
Cameron:And so there's not really a way for us to conceptualize of a desire to follow Jesus, but only a desire to follow him in certain areas of his life, or ministry, or whatever. So we have to make the decision as to whether or not we're going to allow the culture to form us Mhmm. Or we are going to allow the life and practice of Jesus and the words of scripture to form us. And that requires a huge amount of crucifixion of self to do that. That is picking up your cross.
Cameron:That is dying to yourself. Mhmm. And dying to the formation of the culture within you. So, yeah, I I just think that it is going to be a it's going to be really difficult for people. Mhmm.
Cameron:And we're gonna have to call them to a radical, really, a radical version
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Of discipleship to Jesus in order for this to be.
Luke:Yeah. It needs to be practiced Yeah. And integrated. Mhmm. Why I'm noticing that talking about Sabbath makes people uncomfortable.
Luke:Are you sensing that? Yes. Why do you think that is?
Cameron:Well, that's a good question. I don't I don't really know.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Although, I think I do.
Luke:Okay.
Cameron:You know, I I mean, I
Luke:You've got, like, maybe a guess, but you're not like positive.
Cameron:Sure. Well, there's like this I have this big meta narrative answer to it. Mhmm. And then, have like the more practical, I'm not sure. Because even like in our Bible study last night Mhmm.
Cameron:Where we had we we probably had half as many people.
Luke:Yes. We had less people.
Cameron:Not not even by like a few here and there. Right.
Luke:Like
Cameron:half as many. Mhmm.
Luke:Came to our Sabbath Sabbath study. Just came to our prayer study. Right. And it might have just been that it was nice out yesterday, but I doubt it. Yeah.
Cameron:And that could be just whatever. Yeah. Could be a fluke. I I I don't think it is. Yeah.
Cameron:I think that there I think that we live in many ways. We we we live according to kingdom values.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That aren't of like, in our work life rhythm, the rhythms of our life, we do not live according to the kingdom of heaven type of values. Mhmm. And we we do really, really discern like, really, decidedly live according to the values of this world, the kingdom of this world, which is work harder
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Do more, produce more, build it high. Yep. Don't rest. Be on. Don't be lazy.
Cameron:Yeah. Lock in. Yep. Let's go. Yep.
Cameron:And that is glorified. Yeah. It's not even it's not just tolerated. Mhmm. It's glorified.
Luke:Yeah. That was one of the points that resonated with me from the video teaching from last night.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Was, I can't remember exactly how it was said, but it was something like, oh, most people don't go around celebrating and saying, oh, guess how many lies I told this week? Right. But we will go around and brag, ugh, like humble brag. Right? I put in sixty hours of work this week, you know?
Cameron:For ten days in a row, haven't had a day off. Yeah. Anything like that. Right. Yeah.
Cameron:And so it like, it it's giving Romans two for me. How would I say that? It's giving Romans two, where Paul is like, or maybe it's the end of Romans one. I think it's the end of Romans one, where he's essentially saying like, hardness of heart Mhmm. Darkness of heart increases as we find ourselves celebrating in the wickedness of others.
Cameron:Yeah. Mhmm. And for me, it feels a little bit like the culture of work in busyness, and anti Sabbath is like this glorification Mhmm. Of what God has called sin.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:And I think that there is a there's an intrinsic especially for those who know Jesus, who are following Jesus, who have the Holy Spirit, there's an internal conviction Mhmm. Of that reality when you begin to talk about Sabbath, that if they're not ready to surrender that portion of their life, what do what do we what do we do when we're not ready to surrender a portion of our life that's not surrendered to God, as we we run from it.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:We we avoid the instances where we're going to come under conviction. Mhmm. So I I think that people are gonna run from this. And and by running, I mean, I I don't necessarily think that our like Sunday morning services are gonna be any smaller when we're preaching on it, but I think we're gonna get a sense of the people's tuning out.
Luke:Yeah. Right. It's like, how are we going well, that's really nice for someone who that's the that's the thing that I think is gonna be the big thing is is there's gonna be a lot of internal justification. Not like I think there's like a couple different pockets. I think some people are really nervous when we talk about Sabbath because their vision of Sabbath is not very life giving.
Luke:Like, maybe what they grew up with, or what their vision of a really conservative practice of Sabbath looks like, and it's like, we were talking to somebody, and they were like, well, you know, you can't do anything that's not associated with God. You can't play games on Sabbath. You have to you can play like A Bible game. Bible monopoly. Bible monopoly or something like that.
Luke:You know? And so, like, that's not a very like, I don't like Monopoly to begin with. I don't know that I'm gonna like Bible Monopoly much more.
Cameron:I'm Joshua.
Luke:Sure. You just wanna walk around this board, Make all the all the tenets small I'm gonna
Cameron:kill everyone. Just kill everyone that's in my way.
Luke:Just don't pick Job. He wouldn't do well enough.
Cameron:No, he would not.
Luke:So, like, that's not a very compelling version vision of Sabbath. So I still I think some people have this, that doesn't sound good. It doesn't sound beautiful.
Cameron:No. And one of the things that I said last night excuse me. One of the things that I said last night, and I I think it's increasingly true, and it just kind of came to me. I wasn't planning to say it. It just kinda came to me as we were talking about it last night in Bible study.
Cameron:It's like there's this there's this counter formational way Mhmm. That we are thinking about life and work and everything, and then and Sabbath is the counter formation against the culture. Yep. But there's against the culture in general, but I also think there's this stream of counter formation that needs to happen against oppressive, legalistic, ritualistic, religious systems, and upbringings that have given us that twisted view of Sabbath. Mhmm.
Cameron:And that have not allowed us to see it in a life giving, joy filled, beautiful way
Luke:Right.
Cameron:That that makes it the central portion, the central part of someone's week, or someone desires
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:To to pursue Sabbath because of how beautiful it is. Right.
Luke:It's either a drudgery, or I think the other component is that there's too many obstacles to it. Or at least that becomes the justification. Like, I'm I'm anticipating a lot of people having this conversation with themselves of like, oh, well, it's easy for pastor Luke to say that he needs the Sabbath because he doesn't have any
Cameron:kids. Mhmm.
Luke:Or, you know, whatever. Like, I'm not in a season of life where I can Sabbath. I have to do x, y, and z, and so Sabbath is just simply a thing I can't do because I've got kids, or I've got Yep. And you had something to say about that last night.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, I've got as many reasons to not Sabbath as anyone. You do. You you you be busy.
Cameron:I'd be busy. I'd be busy. I got a couple different jobs. I have a big family.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And the jobs that I do have tend to be on the more demanding side. Mhmm. And I'm not saying I'm killing it, Sabbath. I'm just saying, I what I'm saying is, I get it as much as anyone gets it, that Sabbath is hard, especially when you have kids. But what I think what I what I think the problem with that mindset is is that we are, it's actually a problem with us Mhmm.
Cameron:Internally with our heart, in the way that we view the role of parenting. Mhmm. We if we if we view parenting as the job that we have, which I understand, it is hard work. It is for some people, it is their job. It's my wife's.
Cameron:She stays at home. Yeah. Parenting is her job. Mhmm. But if we view it strictly as a job, then we will always view our kids as something that we must sabbath from Yeah.
Cameron:Rather than invite them into. Mhmm. And so our Sabbath is not Sabbath is never, even in scripture, was never something that an individual person observed or celebrated on their own. Mhmm. They celebrated it within their community.
Cameron:Mhmm. And the most intimate form of community is your family, and so Sabbath must be something that we create as a rhythm and a celebration with our family. Mhmm. Our kids included, they must be welcomed into the Sabbath rhythm. We must create rhythms of Sabbath that are appropriate and contextual for them as well, so that they begin to understand its place in the life of believers early.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Which which goes to the point that we kind of talked about again last night about Sabbath intentionality.
Luke:Yep. Yeah. Well, because that's the I think Sabbath, as we're talking about, I think people get these different pictures. You get people who are thinking of Sabbath as this like, you know, you gotta be sitting in a pew all day and can't do anything that's not God related. I think people who get a picture of it as, like, it is a vacation day.
Luke:Right? It's like like, they think of it like they want it to be like they're going to a resort. They get to just like, do nothing. Or some people just think of it as like, well, I have days off Mhmm. Where I do things, you know, without a whole lot of intention to it.
Luke:I shared personally that one of the things that I've had to wrestle with is my own technology use. I have found that if I enter into a Sabbath, and I don't have intentionality around what I'm going to do during that day, I will gravitate towards the lowest common denominator, and then I will not feel rested and restored. Yep. I will spend time watching videos. I will spend time just like doing things around the house, and then I get to the end of the day, and I was like, yeah, okay.
Luke:That was like a day off. Mhmm. But did I do anything that was like, restorative to my soul? Yeah. Did I go outside and touch grass?
Luke:Like Right. Did I, you know, did I spend time with friends or family in a meaningful and connecting way, or did I just kinda like, I didn't really have any plans, so I just spent it all by myself. Mhmm. And I feel a little bit more disconnected at the end of the day than restored. Like Yeah.
Luke:There there has to be some intentionality to it.
Cameron:Right. Right. And and that becomes even more it becomes more even more concentrated. Your intentionality becomes more concentrated when you have family, when you have kids. That was kind of the point that I was getting to, was that if you do no if there's no sense of planning towards the Sabbath Mhmm.
Cameron:The day before, or even the week, the days before Yeah. Then when you get there, you just fall into the lowest common denominator of like, you you you like screech into Sabbath by the skin of your
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Emotional, physical, mental teeth, and then you fall apart, and you end up just being like lazy. Sabbath is not laziness.
Luke:Yeah. I think that's the thing that is kind of hard to get articulated, is that I think we're just like, well, Sabbath means I don't do anything. And in some regard, it does kind of mean that.
Cameron:It means you stop doing some things, but it doesn't mean you do you don't do anything.
Luke:Right. It's not like a day you just sit there.
Cameron:Right.
Luke:Become a bump on a log. Right. Or like, you know, a lizard next to the pool. Like, you're you've gotta be doing something.
Cameron:Yeah. And and some of that some of that something you're doing is the physical we we tend to think that like, laying down for physical rest or something is doing nothing.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:Because we're formed, our culture forms us, that movement means something, you're doing something. Yeah. Rest isn't something that you do. Right. It's something that you do when you're not doing anything else.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Rest is a book If we view rest as a proactive activity that we're involving ourselves in, like, what are you doing tomorrow? Oh, I'm I'm like taking a nap. Like, that's my proactive, intentional
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Plan for restfulness, to experience the gift of God of rest. That's doing something. It's not laziness. Yep. Laziness is really a first to heart attitude.
Cameron:But anyway
Luke:But my I had a theology professor, and he loved to it is clever, but he said it over and over and over again. He's just like, look, you need to learn to not just have recreation, but recreation.
Cameron:Okay. Sounds like a Bible professor.
Luke:Yeah. He totally was. But like, his point there is that, like, do something that's beautiful, something that, like, is kind of enjoying a good gift of the Lord that is doing something that's creative, something that's productive, something that's, you know, like like I don't know. Like, for me, like, you know, if I'm gonna Sabbath, like, watching, like, a Netflix show is fine, I think. For me, personally, like other people, you're gonna have to make their own judgment, but I can't watch more than two episodes of a show.
Luke:Mhmm. Like, if it's going down into, like, binge land, it is becoming not good for my soul. It is my own judgment of that. And I need to read something, and I need to be outside, and I need to connect with people. Those are things that I need to do that are good for my soul in a sense.
Luke:I don't know how else to kind of get at that and help people capture a vision of what's life life giving. I think, thinking about Sabbaths and saying what would be life giving more than what would be quote unquote restful. I feel like that might be the better question for people.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Because I think our idea of restful is skewed.
Cameron:Yeah. And a part of it too, is that we are dealing with a short amount of time. Yeah. Against a huge cultural influence in people's lives. Mhmm.
Cameron:And so I have even been questioning, and it was a little bit even with the prayer series. Mhmm. In the same way, there wasn't a whole lot of practical. Right. We weren't like helping people to create prayer practices as much as we were trying to stir the heart to faith in prayer.
Cameron:Mhmm. Like, that's what I wanted. Like, I wanna stir people's hearts. I think that that is what moves them to this place of desiring the way of Jesus. Mhmm.
Cameron:Following after the way of Jesus. Yep. And and if we can we can get them following after the way of Jesus, they begin to hunger, and thirst, and seek, and find, and so a little bit of that, I feel attention as a preacher, and as a pastor to say, how much of this because what everyone wants to know with Sabbath is the practical things. Well, what can I do and not do?
Luke:Yeah. Right.
Cameron:But that kind of just displays this legalistic Mhmm. Duty bound way of thinking about, talking about the Sabbath that is wrapped up in a world of performance, pleasure Yep. And production, and let me let me get this Sabbath thing over, so I can get back to the more important thing. And that's what troubles me the most. And so that's why I think, that's why I'm, I I don't wanna say I'm worried about if this is gonna quote unquote take.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:I'm I'm I am I think what I would say is, I'm becoming more sober minded Yeah. About the monster of cultural formation that our people are under. It's huge. Yeah. And the and the necessity of a move of God Mhmm.
Cameron:To change it. Yeah. Like, in I heard a pastor say the other day in response to someone talking about the church fighting the culture war.
Luke:Oh, yeah.
Cameron:Yeah. And he said, we are not fighting the culture war, we have lost. Have lost the culture war. Yeah. And I'm I'm beginning to agree with that, that we have lost the culture war, and so fighting it in the traditional sense that we have been
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Fighting it, I think is a fool's errand. And so, to kind of reorient where we are putting now our effort Mhmm. In light of the culture war into really, like, asking the Lord in prayer. Yeah. Contending for our Yeah.
Cameron:World in prayer to say, Lord, without a miraculous intervention, we're we're done. Barna I read a Barna article from 2023 that said, without a the that the church in the Western world is now in a state of irreversible decline without a move of God and a radical new form of discipleship. Mhmm. Without a radical new form of discipleship, and a Barna, the research people, the stats people
Luke:The stats
Cameron:people. The stats people, the numbers people were like, the numbers are clear, irreversible decline unless God moves. Mhmm. We are not we are losing more Christians than we are making.
Luke:Yep. It's been that way for a while. Right. And it's just becoming more and more clear.
Cameron:More and more, like, yeah, more and more aware.
Luke:Yeah. We don't we've for a while now, at least, I'm pretty sure, we've not been planting enough new churches to counteract the amount of churches that close each year. Right.
Cameron:Yeah. Or just a month or or just the number of people who are disillusioned with faith, walking away from faith, dying, and we're not making I mean, I know it sounds like we're not talking about replacement cost here, but it's kind of like the, you know, we're not replacing dying saints with new That's
Luke:what Catholics aren't. Right. Catholics aren't struggling in that regard. But, yeah, I I think I am inclined to also agree with that. I think the pockets like, if you're like I think the pockets of people who would say they're Christians that are fighting the culture war
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:I would say that my concern with that is that whenever I see somebody over there that's like, ugh, waving a little Christian flag and saying that they're fighting the culture war, all the time, but a significant amount of the time, it's losing more and more resemblance with Christ Yep. And any resemblance to the
Cameron:fruits of the spirit. Right. Which is a loss. Which is a loss. That's an l.
Luke:Yeah. And so, like, I'm like, yeah, you might be over there fighting for against, you know, progressive sexuality or something like that, but you look nothing like Jesus while doing it. Right. And that's a loss. Like, that's not Yeah.
Cameron:And what is your form of fighting the culture where you're sharing a few you're you're resharing a couple incendiary posts on Facebook Yeah. And you're calling that fighting the culture war? Like Yeah. Give me a break, bro. Like, just not it.
Cameron:No. Not it at all. Yeah. So I said all that to say, regards to Sabbath, we are up against something that will not be fixed by simply preaching a few good sermons. Like, need God's presence.
Cameron:Mhmm. We need God's presence here. We need Him to to miraculously intervene on our behalf, to do what is impossible to do Mhmm. In the culture. So would like, think, not to shift, keeping it on Sabbath, but shifting a little bit, would like to talk a little bit about the boundaries of the Sabbath day.
Cameron:When does Sabbath start? Oh. When does Sabbath end? Because as I was preparing for last night, and then over the last like twenty four hours or so, just considering my own Sabbath ritual
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And considering what would what would change if I went from like a Jewish day Mhmm. To a Roman day, which we use And so just wondering your thoughts on that conversation that we had. Maybe tee it up for everyone listening about Yeah. Actually talking about.
Luke:So if we're saying, okay, Sabbath is gonna be the traditional twenty four hours of stopping, of resting, of recreating, and we're gonna do that, We can do if I was to ask kindergartner, when does the day start? Mhmm. They would say, in the morning, when I wake up, when I get out of bed. Right? Like, that's the way we conceptualize our days.
Luke:We have for centuries at this point, largely. Now, when you read the Old Testament or not the Old Testament, the Bible, and you read the New Testament, particularly when it gets to Holy Week, and Christ dying on the cross, and then Him being buried for three days. A lot of times people come away saying, he wasn't buried for three days. There's a little bit of confusion around all of that. And the reason is because Jews, ancient Jews, understood their days to start and end at different times.
Luke:For them, the start and end of a day was sundown, not necessarily sunup. So a, you know, sunset is, what, around like 07:00 here now, something like that? So our day today would end at seven, and the new day would start.
Cameron:Yeah. Friday actually starts tonight.
Luke:Friday starts tonight, around dinnertime, and that would be the start of the new day. And so traditionally, when still practice Sabbaths today, when they Shabbat, it starts on Friday night at sundown, and then it ends on Saturday night at sundown. That's when their days it doesn't start and begin at the end of the day. So the question you're asking then is, does it make a difference in the way that we experience Sabbath in our current culture if we say, my Sabbath is gonna start the next morning I wake up, versus starting the evening before I start that full day?
Cameron:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. That's the question. That's ultimately the question that I'm asking.
Cameron:Yeah. And I'm curious. I I I'm I'm curious to to practice that myself to see if it might. Because I'm I have suspicions that it will that it would change things.
Luke:Yeah. Well, traditionally, I think one of the things is is that traditionally, if you change that so traditional Sabbath practice usually starts with a meal, a shared meal on Friday night. And everyone comes to someone's house, usually the matriarch and patriarch or whatever. All the families are gathering in these kind of bigger family units. The kids are coming home from the suburbs or whatever.
Luke:Everyone's coming home, and they gather together. It's sundown. They have the meal. They light the Shabbat candles. They, like, say some prayers, and then they enjoy the meal.
Luke:They relax into the evening, and then the next day is the rest of their Sabbath. And they can do they do what they're gonna do. They go to temple, they do all of that stuff, And then rest, taking naps. There there are old ancient Jewish documents that highlight different practices that people can do on Sabbath, and napping is one of them, sex with your spouse is one of them. There's a whole bunch of things that can be done, or were traditionally practiced on the Sabbath.
Luke:But I think having that meal ahead of time, so that you have this community moment, and instead of having that, like, in the more American way, which is like Sunday dinner or Sunday, like, late lunch, where everyone's running home and they're having to, like, get the meal all ready and then come, and that can sometimes be a little crazy unless you're like a crock pot master, which is maybe like a thing. We need to become better at crock pots to practice Sabbath better. But I think there's something about starting it that way, getting some physical night rest, and then starting your day already partly into the rest and into the Sabbath, rather than crashing and burning at the end of the day, sleeping in and waking up and saying, alright, I gotta bring some intentionality to my Sabbath now.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. I think part of it is like going to bed. It's that shared it's all those things. Yeah.
Cameron:It's all those things, but part of it for me, I feel is like going to bed already in a rhythm of Sabbath. Mhmm. Like, it has started, I go, like, just the mental, emotional, physical, spiritual load.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Has been lifted, and you start with a Sabbath meal, and time with your family, or or or with your community, or whoever it is. And then and then you you kind of enter into this place of, like, really meaningful rest. So Yeah. And then also, I feel like I feel a little bit like there's less pressure.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:Because at the end of the day, at the end of my Sabbath Mhmm. There's a portion of the day Mhmm. That now is, you know, I
Luke:You can reconnect. Can do whatever you want.
Cameron:Do the work. I can, you know, enter lock in again, you know, whatever the case may be. And so there's this sense of like, yeah. I just I guess it it feels different. Yeah.
Cameron:It feels different. Don't know what to say other than that.
Luke:Well, I think too, it's like we're so conditioned for our mornings to be wake up, go. And when we have our Sabbath day, and our Sabbath day starts in the morning, it's really hard to switch that rhythm off for some of us. Mhmm. We're just like, supposed to be going. And I think that's hard.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:And I think I think I think it just I think we need more transitions Mhmm. Than we think we do. Mhmm. Like, anybody who, like, works with kids or has kids knows that kids do not go from point a to point b very simply. Right?
Luke:Like, I'm curious. When you guys are taking your kids somewhere, how big of a warning time do you have to like, give for like, getting the kids ready to get out the door to go somewhere?
Cameron:Well, it depends. It depends on how much we how much of like, how long we want to endure the chaos. So, all of our kids are different. Some of them don't do well with immediate transitions or Right. Changes of rhythm or schedule, and so they need a little bit more notice.
Cameron:Yeah. But for the most part, what I mean, what we try to do is we try to do a bunch of the work that is required for us to leave the house Mhmm. Without them
Luke:Knowing. Knowing. Because they're gonna get too emotionally excited.
Cameron:Yes. So, like we set the shoes out, we pack the bag, we get the jackets, make sure all the jackets are hung up, okay. They know they can just go get their jackets, they can get their shoes. And then, depending on the thing, you know, we're like, alright, it's time to go, and we maybe give ourselves, you know, five, eight, ten minutes to get to the car. Yeah.
Cameron:So
Luke:But you've still done like forty five minutes of prep. Oh. Yeah.
Cameron:Like Oh, yeah. The prep has been done. So we're just taking it out of the hands of the kids.
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Cameron:Because that is like, you give the prep to the kids, it's like brushing your teeth while eating an Oreo. Yeah. Like, is. Where's your other shoe? Right.
Cameron:Yeah. Just does not make any sense. Yep. There's no forward progress made.
Luke:That is some parenting wisdom there. Because but that's definitely like especially when like, we we were watching our nephews the other week, and we were going we needed to go somewhere, and, like, you know, like, they weren't exactly super excited about going to this thing. And so we're like, oh, shoot. We need to leave in two minutes. Like, okay, kids.
Luke:Let's go. And they're all just like, oh, wait. I gotta put on my shoe. I wanna change my outfit. No.
Luke:No. No. And, like, they they needed that transition. And so, like, I think as adults, we neglect giving ourselves, like, transition moments Mhmm. In and out of things.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:Like, I I don't have much of a commute. I haven't had much of a commute, but now I really don't have much of a commute.
Cameron:One of
Luke:the things I miss about being in Chicago is a little bit of the commute, as much as that's kinda crazy for me to say Mhmm. Because the commute in Chicago to get to work was nuts. But I would it took me an hour to get to work, even though I only lived, like, two miles from work. Mhmm. But I had to get on a bus.
Luke:I had to walk to the bus stop, get on a bus, get on the L, get off the L, and walk a couple blocks. And while I'm doing that, I'm listening to an audiobook. I'm listening to a podcast, a sermon. I'm thinking, I'm reading, I'm doing something, and that was how I started my day to get into work, and it was how I ended my day to get home. Now, I live less than a minute drive from the church.
Luke:Literally. That's a
Cameron:minute, yeah.
Luke:So I have like zero commute. I've kind of almost start to I'm almost starting to feel like I'm not ever actually leaving home.
Cameron:I bet you, honestly, your commute is so short. I bet if we walked out of the front door at the same time,
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And I was like, I'm gonna jog to your house. That I could jog to your house before you could make it to your car. Yeah. And do all those stop signs and turns, the two turns that
Luke:you have to Yeah, the two turns.
Cameron:I could be at your house about the same time, if not quicker. Yeah. It's crazy.
Luke:Just about. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. And so, it's I don't have that commute.
Luke:I don't have that transition time anymore. And so, sometimes, get home, and I'm just like, I'm still trying to unwind from having just been at my desk. Like, I need to go for a walk, or I need something to transition. So I think having Sabbath at the starting at the end of our traditional day, I think, gives you a way to transition. Man, that was a really long way to talk about all that, but Yeah.
Cameron:Anyways. Yeah. No, I I agree. It's it is I'm I'm eager to try that. I'm I'm gonna try it this week.
Cameron:Mhmm. So, what's today? Thursday, my Sabbath will start tomorrow night, say around 7PM or so.
Luke:Yeah. I think the part that I'm really interested, I wanna do that too. I wanna do the evening start and end, but I also want to do something to market. Like, I to get a candle, and I want to have some prayer or a meditation to do, and I'm going to sit down, going to light this candle, gonna read this prayer, and that's the start of Sabbath. And then like, do the same thing to end it, so that I'm not being so fuzzy.
Luke:Because like, if I don't start and end it in this very practical demarcation, I'm more apt to say, well, is today really my Sabbath? Or like, you know, well, I can know, and I end up a whole bunch of things get added into the day that are not Sabbath. Mhmm. So interested to see what brings some intentionality to that. Yeah.
Luke:Yep. If that will bring some more intentionality in my heart Heart
Cameron:about it.
Luke:Position towards As crazy as some people listening to this might be thinking, like, is Luke becoming an Orthodox Jew? I'm not. But I think that's those things are important or helpful.
Cameron:Yeah. Well, and listen, there there are practical I'm asking practical questions about that just even in my own life. Like, if I do that Friday night Sabbath start Mhmm. Then there's things that sometimes happen on Saturdays
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That I have real questions about. Right. Like, just I don't know about. Like, we have a men's breakfast here Yes. That I lead.
Luke:Yeah. Is that
Cameron:Is that
Luke:it? Yeah.
Cameron:Are some of our kids have, like, dance activities on Saturday.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:And it usually is a little bit of a a little it's a thing. It's a thing to get there, and to get back, you know? So I'm having these questions too. Yeah. And I don't really know.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. But, we're gonna I'm gonna Sabbath as I can, not Sabbath as I can't to begin with. Yep. And then just allow God to form to form that in me.
Cameron:Mhmm. Know?
Luke:Alright. Well, if you have questions about what we've been talking about with Sabbath, we'd love to hear them in the comments or in a message line or whatever. We'd just be interested to hear what your reflections have been on this so far. We've got more to talk about for sure.
Cameron:Yeah, we've got weeks. We've got weeks of Sabbath to talk about.
Luke:I think the next thing I want to talk about is Sabbath still a tenth commandment?
Cameron:Is it
Luke:binding? Okay. Maybe to at least start.
Cameron:Alright, let's do it. That's a good question. If you're watching this on YouTube, let us know in the comments what you think about that question. Yeah. And and we will catch you on the next one.
