Sabbath: Didn't Jesus do away with the Sabbath?
Welcome to the uncut podcast. I'm pastor Luke. I'm pastor Cameron. And this is the uncut podcast where we have honest uncut conversations about faith, life, and ministry. Morning, everyone.
Luke:Morning, everyone. At least morning for us. We've been, in the past couple episodes, talking about Sabbath, kind of covered a little bit of the gamut. Today, we're not entirely sure what exactly we're going to talk about, but we figured we'd start with Sabbaths, since that's where our study has kind of been, and where we've been kind of thinking and talking about as of late. Maybe kind of finish up some details or questions that we didn't get to talk about in the sermon series.
Luke:There was a lot to talk about there. But maybe let's just start with that question that I think is on a lot of people's minds, and is a heavily debated topic, so there's certainly plenty to talk about, must Christians observe Sabbath?
Cameron:If you want to follow the life of Jesus closely, then yes.
Luke:Yeah. Because so so your answer is, well, Jesus practiced Sabbath?
Cameron:Yes. Mhmm. I don't think that's inconsequential.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:It becomes a little bit like, maybe maybe the argument is a little circular because he comes to be the Lord of the Sabbath, to be the fulfillment of the law. Yeah. He is a Jew. Mhmm. And they celebrated or observed the Sabbath.
Cameron:And so it but then in the same way, what would be the I guess, of the reasoning would be, or part of the reverse question is, why would a Christian choose not to celebrate the Sabbath, or observe the Sabbath? And I think the typical answer is, well, I don't have to, because I follow Jesus. He is the Lord of the Sabbath. He fulfilled the law Mhmm. In his life, death, resurrection, so I'm no longer bound by the law.
Cameron:Therefore, Sabbath is no longer something that I have to be worried about. Which, I've not really ever truly understood that argument myself, because we don't typically have that type of attitude towards other aspects of the law. In particular, Old Testament, or like, 10 Commandments type of 10 Commandments type of law, typically, there is still a understanding of we want to continue to keep the moral aspects of the law because we think that they're important and because Jesus did. But ultimately, I kinda think, I understand the question, but I almost think that it may be the wrong question. Mhmm.
Cameron:Rather than must a must a Christian follow the Sabbath or observe the Sabbath, I think the better question is, why wouldn't what would be the reasons that a Christian wouldn't observe the Sabbath?
Luke:Yeah. Well, I mean, I think the to give a fair representation of the I think it would be like, well, you know, Jesus did away with the law, and like,
Cameron:did he though?
Luke:Well, no. But like, you know, he we're no longer bound by the law, perhaps is a better way of saying that. And, you know, Jesus sort of has given us freedom, you know? Mhmm. And so for us to continue to hold to what was a Jewish custom, you know, would be kind of, know, isn't that just Judaizing ourself?
Luke:You know? So the early church struggled with people who were Judaizers, who essentially were advocating for importing significant amounts of Jewish Levitical law into church practice, and Paul talks very explicitly about the Judaizers and not being subject to that. So why does it not fall in the same vein as circumcision?
Cameron:And I would say to that, because Sabbath was not just a principle of the law, Sabbath was a principle of creation.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:That Sabbath wasn't established because God said, oh, and by the way, on the seventh day, don't do anything. Right. Or the seventh year, don't do anything. Yeah. That Sabbath had its root in creation.
Cameron:Mhmm. So I think it goes beyond just law keeping, or law breaking, or the fulfillment of the law. Yeah, because if we talk about Sabbath as something necessary unto salvation, which is what the Judaizers were trying to do, right? They were saying to Christians, Gentile Christians, well, Jesus was Jewish, so they they were they were elevating things like circumcision, elevating the necessity of that to for salvation. Yeah.
Cameron:And I wouldn't elevate Sabbath as necessary to salvation. Right. But I that's not the same thing as saying that it is an unhelpful or unnecessary practice, because especially because of the way in which we see the rhythmic, cyclical presence of Sabbath in the creation account.
Luke:Mhmm. I want to read for us I think I think this will kind of help us summarize the whole actually, both sides of the argument well here is Romans 14 verse five says, one person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God.
Luke:For none of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself. For if we live, we live to the Lord. If we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live, whether we die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be both Lord of the dead and the living.
Luke:And so, there in that first part, it's talking about one esteems one day as better than the other, while some esteem all days alike. Each should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Cameron:So we're saying that for Paul, at least, that the practice of Sabbath, and he doesn't come right out and say No. That one day is the Sabbath, but you get the language that he's Yes. Especially when he says, you know, they observe one day unto the Lord, which the message of the Old Testament about Sabbath. Right. That he is saying it's a matter of personal conscience and conviction.
Cameron:Yeah. You can if you want to. Mhmm. You don't have to if you don't want to. Yeah.
Cameron:But what do you think he was saying that in relation to? Like, do you think it was in relation to a person's salvation? Or do you think it was in relationship to, like, what is like, I I think it's in relationship to salvation. Like, hey, Romans Mhmm. You're it's a matter of personal conscience here.
Cameron:So, you know, like, you're not gonna be unsaved if you don't. You're not gonna be saved if you do. Right. But I I do wonder what Paul would say in just, in the everything is permissible for me, but not everything is beneficial.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And he was like, but this is beneficial. Right. I don't know, but I do wonder because I just can't get I just can't get away from its presence in creation.
Luke:Yeah. I I mean, there's also an argument. It would be I wonder if there so I don't know, but like, there could be an argument here that he's maybe not saying that we should well, it would be kind of hard to get around the phrase, one esteems all days as alike. But there was some debate early in the church about Sabbath moving from Saturday to Sunday. A lot of the early church observed traditional Sabbath on Saturday and then practiced what eventually became our modern church service on Sundays as well.
Luke:Some people think that that accounts for some of the way that communions are kind of described. There's the different communions that are described in the New Testament, where it seems like communion was this big feast, but then also it seems to not always be that, and so some think that that's maybe the origin of that, is that we were having Sabbath feasts with communion on Saturday, or Saturday, yeah, Saturday, which would be like our Friday night, and then practicing Sunday morning worship as well. But I don't think that that's really what he's talking about here, I So, I mean, I think he's saying here that while here's the thing, is that if you read this passage and you're like, Okay, well that means I don't have to observe Sabbath, he doesn't really let you off the hook. He says each one should be fully convinced in their own mind. The one who observes the day, observes it and honors the Lord.
Luke:The one who eats is to do in the honor of the Lord, he gives thanks. The one who abstains in honor of the Lord gives thanks. So if you're observing all of the days alike, you're supposed to be observing all of those days to the Lord with the same amount of intentionality as if you were observing with that you would do the one. And what I find a compelling rebuttal to anyone who reads this passage and simply reads it as like, Well, there, I don't have to practice Sabbath. Okay, then how are you observing every day unto the Lord with intentionality, like, because you're supposed to be doing that unto the Lord.
Luke:Whereas, what I think what typically happens is we just fall into a pattern of just doing what the world's been doing. Mhmm. We just go through our week, our habits, our rhythm is more defined by the sports schedule and our work schedule than it is by observing it. Our Sabbath rhythm. Our Sabbath rhythm.
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. But I agree. I think largely, you know, there's this people make a distinction in the Old Testament law, and it kind of works, saying that there's the ceremonial and cultural law, which is most of what's in Leviticus, and then there's the moral law, which is summed up in the 10 Commandments. The ceremonial and Levitical law has mostly been done away with.
Luke:Paul mostly advocates, we don't necessarily have to observe that. That's why I had bacon for breakfast this morning. But then, the moral law, must continue to observe. That's generally an argument that has been made by a lot of Christians for a long time. The issue being is that that's a really nice way of dividing it up, except for when you come to the Sabbath, because then people also want to say, well, the moral law except for the Sabbath, because the Sabbath is obviously not moral, except that the Bible does treat it as a moral law.
Luke:A Sabbath breaker could be punished by death in the Old Testament.
Cameron:Mhmm. That's what they wanted to do with Jesus.
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. They wanted to kill Jesus because he healed on the Sabbath, and other things on the Sabbath. And so it was a moral law, and I think it's I I think if you want like, I don't know how completely convinced I am by the that argument of, like, the ceremonial and moral. I don't know if that's really a category with, like
Cameron:was gonna ask I was gonna ask the question about, like, what do you think the awareness of people contemporary to Jesus was in the distinction between ceremonial and moral law?
Luke:I don't think
Cameron:that was It was just the law.
Luke:It was just the law. And and I think that's I think that's a philosophical, like, category that we've put on it reading backwards.
Cameron:It's helped us to read backwards.
Luke:And it creates a nice distinction in our minds because it helps us parse out some of what Paul's saying in the New Testament, but I don't know that it originates from the Bible, and so I think it has a pretty strong limit as how far back that can really create our interpretations
Cameron:of things. There are things that are labeled as ceremonial laws. Mhmm. But they were never, at least
Luke:Well, because like there was
Cameron:I could be wrong, but I don't recall any point where they were like where any New Testament writer or even Old Testament figure elevated certain laws over other laws. No. As like, oh, this is the moral law, so we must follow it. This is just the ceremonial law, so that there's some room for interpretation. I could be wrong there, but I don't think that that's the way that they approach the law.
Luke:Not necessarily. I mean, like, you could make the argument that, like, the punishments, so, like, the severity of punishment per law makes But I mean, most lost ended up in some version of death at some point, if you read the Old Testament. So I don't know. I've never really Not never, but I feel like that categorical argument is hard to make from scripture itself, and I think is more a category that we've reimposed on scripture post. But I think it But if you buy that, and if that's a schema that you're holding into, you then do have to answer the question, why don't we observe Sabbath?
Luke:But even if we don't hold onto that schema, I do still think that the fact that it is encoded in the 10 commandments does root it as being somewhat core. It's not like the law of like Don't eat shellfish. Don't eat shellfish. Don't wear blended fabrics. Don't the first year of marriage, the man's not allowed to go off to war or leave his homestead for a whole year.
Luke:Mhmm. Like, it's not one of those laws. It's one of the 10 commandments, rooted in creation and in the Exodus story, reiterated a lot Mhmm. Tied into the gospel story. Mhmm.
Luke:Like, it's it's not some small small thing for us to dismiss.
Cameron:Yeah. I I just think it becomes more difficult and problematic to explain away the practice of Sabbath than it does to actually observe the Sabbath. Yeah. You gotta do more theological, interpretive, hermeneutical gymnastics to jump around. Yep.
Cameron:Why wouldn't we? Especially in in this something that you said this past week, especially in a like, understanding Sabbath as a gift. Right. Like, if Sabbath is a gift given to us by God, then who in their right mind would be like, yeah, I'm good on gifts from God. I don't don't need any gift from God.
Cameron:I don't want a gift from God. I would rather just work myself to death death, and unite myself with the God of mammon Yeah. In the world. Mhmm. Instead of receive a gift of God rooted in the fabric of creation.
Cameron:Yeah. So it just seems
Luke:It is. That's the point, is essentially, we do have to get down to a place of like, why are you refusing Sabbath if it's a gift? And like, you know, maybe there's a listener, you know, you're like, you know, your life and your work and your family is in such a way that like, you're working seven days a week or something ridiculous. Yeah. Is there grace for where you find yourself and what you're forced to do?
Luke:A %. Right? Mhmm. But at the same time, I would say that the people who literally are unable to observe Sabbath in a twenty four hour period of rest from all work and spending it in delight and worship, is very few. I would say most people who would come and say, Pastor Luke, Pastor Cameron, I cannot practice Sabbath.
Luke:I am just simply too busy. I would say that most of those people can. They are simply unwilling to change their life in such a way as to make it possible.
Cameron:Right. Right. Yeah. And right. And there may be days where or weeks Yep.
Cameron:Where my my schedule this week Yeah. Is such that, like, I don't know that I'm gonna get a full, uninterrupted twenty four hour period of time where I can legitimately pursue Sabbath rest.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:The difference now being is because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, I do not fall under the curse of breaking that law. Right. I fall under the law of grace, the law of Jesus, and there is a permissableness there.
Luke:Yep.
Cameron:Not not a taking advantage of the grace offered, but a freedom from the legalism that says, following the law to a t is what makes you righteous. Yeah. I already am righteous. I have the righteousness of Jesus. Mhmm.
Cameron:Not righteousness of my own that comes from the law, so Paul himself says, but a righteousness that comes by faith.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:So, yeah, for me, it's like I'm I'm gonna take the gift. I'm gonna celebrate the gift. If there's weeks that I that the gift becomes or that the schedule becomes just undoable, then Mhmm. I take what of the gift I can. Yeah.
Cameron:It's when we were preaching on prayer, we use the phrase pray as you can, not as you can't. Right. And sometimes you need the Sabbath as you can, not as you can't.
Luke:Right. Start where you're
Cameron:at. Mhmm.
Luke:You know, if that looks like, you know, your Saturday morning, you know, you're able to take just Saturday morning as a Sabbath, start there. Yep. You know? If you're like, there's no way I could do a twenty four hour period. Okay.
Luke:Well, can you do like a six hour period, eight hour period?
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:You know? Let that be let that be something.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:We were finishing up our Wednesday night study on Sabbath last night, and we, for that curriculum, we've been using the Practicing Away curriculum on Sabbath by John Mark Comer and his team, and they had a really, I think, helpful way of talking about Sabbath. They said that in their community, they've been talking and practicing Sabbath so long that people have kind of developed this slang for something that's Sabbath adjacent, but not truly Sabbath. Mhmm. So like, a day where you're like, oh, you start out, and you're like, you know, but then you get distracted, and you do the laundry, and you maybe do some project work, and you're kind of like, nah, and you kind of not really, and then you end the day with, like, you know, binging a whole season of a show or something like that. Is they they would call that Sabb ish.
Luke:Sabbish, not Sabbath.
Cameron:Okay.
Luke:You know, Sabbath like. And I think that that's a thing that is a really true experience. I think if we're not careful, Sabbaths can become Sabbath like, very Sabbath ish, where we're not truly practicing Sabbath with the level of intentionality that it actually brings life.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Luke:What do you feel like are those things that, like, maybe we that become part of in the Sabbath that make it not as intentional and life giving? Yeah. That kind of, like, turn it more into a day off Yeah. Than a true Sabbath?
Cameron:Well, I I I will always speak from my experience. Yeah. But in the past, I have used my Sabbath as a way to knock things off my to do list at home. Mhmm. Things that I've been staring at for weeks or months or whatever.
Cameron:Yeah. And it's hard because there is a sense there's a sense of like, oh, when I have the opportunity now to get to one of those things
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And knock it off the list, then I'm like, I feel so good to have that done. Yeah. A tremendous sense of accomplishment, or appreciation, or whatever. But in the midst of doing it, it's just work, it's just like trying to get this thing done. This is my only time, so to speak, that I have to do it.
Cameron:And so I I would say like doing home projects and like chunking things or checking things off the list, that's one that's sabbish for me.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:I think exercising is sabbish for me. Oh, really? Yep. I do. Mhmm.
Cameron:Part part of the reason that I think that is because Sabbath, in a lot of ways, is the breaking of a rhythm.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:You know, it's like the ceasing and the stopping of what your life is.
Luke:Mhmm.
Cameron:And a part of my regular rhythm and is exercising Yeah. Every day. In the morning, usually. Sometimes twice a day. Like, I was at the gym this morning.
Luke:Cameron's a gym pro, guys.
Cameron:At 5AM. And before I go, well, maybe. I mean, we have people coming over for dinner, so like, I don't I don't know when I'm gonna get to it today. But they're like, I have another workout in my program or in my schedule to prepare or to get Mhmm. Ready for the marathon I'm prepping for.
Cameron:Yeah. And is it necessary to do it? No. It's not necessary. I'm not gonna shrivel up and die if I don't.
Cameron:It'll be alright.
Luke:Yeah.
Cameron:But it's still a part of who I am, that I do get in my head a little bit about if I miss a workout.
Luke:Which is good, good on you.
Cameron:Yeah. I really get in my head, and so I really push my schedule and push my body to get those things done. And I think that it could be said that on a Sabbath, that ex like maintaining that rhythm Mhmm. And maintaining that schedule for me is not a sufficient enough break with the world. Yeah.
Cameron:Or or not a sufficient enough break with Your pattern. Culture of my heart. Mhmm. Mhmm.
Luke:Yeah. Yeah. I feel like home we were just talking about home projects before we started recording, but, like, if there's a magical home project that takes an hour, maybe an hour and a half. That could be Sabbath for me, but those just don't exist. Mhmm.
Luke:Like like, you know, like, by the time you you're like, okay, what do I gotta do? Figure out, okay, oh, I need to go to Home Depot or wherever, Ace, and get and get X, Y, and Z to do the project. You come back, start the project. It doesn't take as, you know, you're getting interrupted. Oh, there's that thing that you oh, look, this is gonna be twice as big.
Luke:You know, projects never end up being simply an hour of your time. Because there is a little bit of truth to the adage of, if you work with your mind, rest with your hands, and if you work with your hands, rest with your mind. There is, like, some truth to that.
Cameron:What if you do both?
Luke:For what if you do both, you know? Then Yeah. You just lay there. Sometimes
Cameron:that's what I need. I feel like even that's what I need today, so Yeah.
Luke:But, you know so for me, sometimes, some physical labor, some things around the house, but I know that that can easily for me, that can easily turn from like a forty five minute project into, where did my whole day go?
Cameron:Yeah.
Luke:And then I I don't feel very rested.
Cameron:Well, I will say too that, like, there's physical activity that you that I could probably do, that I know I could do that would not be Sabbish, but would be Sabbath. Mhmm. I don't know why I didn't think of this when I was talking before, but that's exactly Sherry and I, last Friday, we got the kids off to school on the bus, and we packed a we packed a bag, and we went for a long hike in the Allegheny National Forest, no cell service, beautiful weather, just the two of us. Hiked six miles into a lake, hiked back out, had lunch, and it was physically demanding, but it wasn't like a, Oh, I'm
Luke:here You're not lifting rocks a smelly warehouse, you know? No.
Cameron:You're just like, I was enjoying the company of my wife, I was enjoying the company of creation, I was enjoying the company, like the presence of the Lord, out in the fresh air, no pressure. Yeah. Just there to enjoy. Yep. To delight.
Cameron:Stuff like that. Yep. Is what work is like. That could be for me.
Luke:Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. I think for me, the thing that is most easily I love spending time with people. I think sometimes it depends on where my social battery is, and who the people are sometimes.
Luke:Like, if I'm going into a social situation what's on what's supposed to be my Sabbath, and I'm like, there's gonna be a lot of I don't really know the people super well, or their acquaintances, or, you know, or something. Like, it's going to require more of my social battery.
Cameron:Mhmm.
Luke:That does not typically that's usually more savvish. I might even walk away saying, oh, that was kind of fun. Mhmm. But I don't feel rested. Feel more like like a drained Energizer bunny.
Luke:Or I think the thing that is more likely to sneak in and steal my Sabbath is like, I need to find language for this, because everyone knows what I'm talking about, but I've not quite really found the term for it in English. But kind of this I think it's when we engage with entertainment in a mindless or over consumptive way. So like binging a TV show, scrolling on my phone, playing video games for hours on end. Now, part of my story and even what I shared from my last sermon was that actually, like, Friday night movies with my dad, sitting down with a bowl of popcorn watching a classic movie was like, for me, an early identification of like, that was Sabbath for me. Like, that was a routine and habit that was in my family that like, brought a lot of joy, goodness into my life.
Luke:But that wasn't sitting down and watching like, a Netflix or Hulu show that's like, you know, thirty minute episodes or forty five minute episodes, and watching six of them in a row or something like that. It was sitting down, watching something that had been created with some intentionality and artistry, and even talking about it. And there were some boundaries to it. It wasn't like I was doing that every night. This was something I was doing especially with my dad on Friday nights.
Luke:And so there is a point for me where playing a video game for an hour or two, or watching a good movie or something, can be really restful, restorative, and bring joy to me. But when it starts to become mindless, and I'm using it to escape, or numb out, or it like, gets into this length, it it does not it ceases to become it becomes sabbish for me, and I walk away feeling more less attuned Mhmm. Not more attuned to my environment and myself. There's like a fine line for that. For some people
Cameron:It's a volume.
Luke:Yeah, exactly. And for some people, you just gotta avoid all digital media. For me, that's not necessarily the thing, you know? If I because I enjoy watching a really good movie, and sitting down, and discussing it, and thinking about it. But I know that that's not everybody.
Luke:It kinda drives my wife nuts. She'll we'll be watching like a I don't know, some sort of like thriller or something, and she's just like, oh my gosh, what if that person dies? And I was like, I won't. They're they won't. They're top billed on the on the they're like the advertised star.
Luke:They're not gonna die in the movie. They're like, shut up. I have a tendency of ruining movies from people sometimes, but so I think I think that I don't know. I think media definitely can get its hooks, because that's our default way of relaxing, but it's not necessarily a good way to Sabbath.
Cameron:No. Mm-mm. No. Yeah. I think the whole series on Sabbath, the press into Sabbath has been timely Mhmm.
Cameron:And from the Lord. I don't I don't think that it is like a, oh, we just picked a spiritual topic out of thin air. I think it No. Goes from the Lord. I'm kinda eager to continue with it now that there's somewhat of a base Mhmm.
Cameron:Or a foundation that's been laid Yep. In the church, and see where see where it goes from here for all of us, even just myself.
Luke:Yeah. Me too. I I do think that it we talked about this, I think, last time, was just how much the topic kind of surprised us, and how much there was to kind of talk about, and even just unpack, and how culturally opposed we've become to Sabbath.
Cameron:Yeah. Yeah. The pushback, and then really eye opening and revealing to me as a pastor. So thanks for listening to this episode Mhmm. And all the previous episodes on Sabbath and prayer and the things that we've been preaching on lately.
Cameron:We're gonna be taking a break from a regular series over the next three weeks in on Sundays. Be preaching on Palm Sunday this week, and then Good Friday, and Easter Sunday, and then the last, week of the month here in April, we're preaching on baptism, we have a baptism service coming up. So and then we're into a series on Exodus. So I imagine that you're gonna get a lot of Exodus material here Mhmm. On the podcast during that time.
Cameron:So Yeah. The spring and summer.
Luke:Yep. Or parables.
Cameron:Or parables. That's right. To turn the parables on Wednesday night, that'd be a great class.
Luke:Yeah. So
Cameron:Oh, also, I do have to say, someone did, just like off the cuff, out of the blue, had no idea they watched the podcast, said, hey, thanks for making your speech a little bit quicker. And then they laughed. Like, alright. Okay. Thanks.
Cameron:You're welcome. You're welcome. I'm gonna continue to try to speak more quickly, because on replay, recognizing how slowly I speak, but
Luke:We just we'll count it up to thoughtfulness. Sounds good.
Cameron:Alright. Thanks. We'll catch you on the next one.
